The Courage to Pivot and Our Ethereal Reset in Greece with Rachel Saunders
EP 33

The Courage to Pivot and Our Ethereal Reset in Greece with Rachel Saunders

Show Notes:

Ease and effort may seem like contrary ideas but both are insightful, necessary, and nuanced aspects of a successful pivot. Today, Rachel Saunders guides us through her graceful pivot from burned- out business owner to multidisciplinary artist. Rachel now leads The Sanctuary, a monthly subscription infused with inspiration and guidance. And this summer, Rachel and I have collaborated to lead a retreat in Greece, in collaboration with me, An Ethereal Reset. Which sold out in record time! In this episode, we talk about the creative process, healing, Human Design, and the magic that Greece has to offer as inspiration. Join us in this conversation to learn about how to commit to flow, pivot with grace, and to learn more about our experience in Greece, we’d love to have you join and are opening up more spaces due to demand. 

Most business owners and artists have experienced a pivot or shapeshift once, twice, or even a multitude of times. Rachel’s experience is a beautiful example of what the ego may experience during that process and the wealth of lessons in these transitions. A pivot invites courage and trust after burnout. We discuss how Human Design can guide how we operate in our art and business. We share what we’ve learned as projector entrepreneurs, renegotiating how we approach effort, challenge, and the things that feel hard. 

Together, Rachel and I will be hosting An Ethereal Reset this summer. We offer a behind-the-scenes discussion on the philosophies from which we’ve built this offering, and how it integrates the land, community, rest, and play. Rachel has found sublime transformation through artist residencies and infuses those lessons in our retreat. We hope that the retreat creates a welcoming space for attendees to experience inner joy, to share themselves, and take meaningful steps towards a creative state of life. 

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favorite podcast platform. 

Topics Covered:

  • The death and rebirth of a pivot
  • The role of Human Design in art and business
  • Rachel’s love of Greece
  • What to expect from An Ethereal Reset 
  • Rachel’s art and inspiration community, The Sanctuary
  • Cultivating openness to surrender control

Resources Mentioned:

Guest Info: 

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Show Transcript:

Tonya Papanikolov  00:00

Hello, welcome back to another episode of the Rainbo Podcast. I'm excited to be back in the flow of recording, I took a little bit of a pause as I was traveling and just had quite a bit going on with the business. But I'm really excited to be bringing it back. And who better to do that with then a dear friend of mine and an inspiration source, Rachel Saunders, who many of you or some of you may be familiar with already. She is, while she created Rachel Sanders ceramics and had a departure from that and is now the founder of the sanctuary. 


Tonya Papanikolov  00:43

And she is a an incredible artist and guide, and creator of all kinds. And we've actually been low key working on something behind the scenes since January of this year that we just launched in April on the full moon. And it has been a beautiful labor of love and a coming together of ideas and has just flowed together so beautiful, beautifully. And it is a Greece retreat. It's called an ethereal reset, and it's sold out very, very quickly, we are going to be opening up a few more spots to it due to the demand. And the amazing, amazing feedback we got we were so so genuinely excited and thrilled about it. 


Tonya Papanikolov  01:29

So I am going to link to the ethereal reset Squarespace website in the show notes. And if you're interested in learning more, we have so much outlined for you on that site. And you can also sign up to the waitlist, if that's something you're considering this September 8 to 15th 2024 in Greece on a small healing, very, very special island called folegandros. And we are so so excited, there's a few spots that are going to be opening up. So take a look.


Tonya Papanikolov  02:06

And this episode with Rachel is really just pretty much what every conversation between us sounds like very just going with the flow and seeing where the beauty of our conversation leads us. We talk about her creative process and what it's like to pivot from what it was like to pivot from her business. And all of the emotions that were involved in that and her experience in being a projector and what that really means to her in her life and how to find ease. And really what ease really means and what it is. And you know, is it just an aspirational goal we may strive towards. And, of course, we talk about the inspiration and our excitement for our time in Greece together. So let's dive into the episode and I know you will love it. 


Tonya Papanikolov  03:06

Okay, it's official. Hello, Rachel. 


Tonya Papanikolov  03:10

I'm so happy to be in this conversation with you. And it really just feels like a continuation of the last many weeks of calls. And all of the stuff that we've had going on, but how about we just start I mean, I think you know, there's, there's so many people that know you and love you and but how would you how are you describing yourself these days?


Tonya Papanikolov  03:10

Hi, Tonya. I love 


Rachel Saunders  03:39

Thank you. Well, I just want to say it's so nice to be here. And I love anytime we get to connect. And that is definitely a question that I've been working on a lot this past year because for the last eight or so years, I've been defining myself solely as a ceramicist. And almost a year ago today, I chose to close down my studio practice. Yeah, that's actually crazy timing to think about. Especially because now we've just launched a thing. 


Rachel Saunders  04:13

Okay, I know. And so in this past year, I have really just allowed myself to really I guess it's gonna sound cheesy, but like, you know, exists without the limitations of those identities because I was really feeling quite pigeonholed for many years from the ceramicist role, but it's also been very good to me. But these days, I am doing a lot of writing. I'm doing a lot of community work. Designing. I rent a membership platform called the sanctuary and just lots of different fun, creative collaborations, but it's a it's definitely a time of going have free flow and surrender and just being open.


Tonya Papanikolov  05:07

Thank you for sharing that. I know it is actually kind of crazy because I remember sitting at in Silverlake with you at Erawan.


Rachel Saunders  05:18

Always when he's down at


Tonya Papanikolov  05:20

Yeah, big life, big life changes, December to just kind of, it's just beautiful. Like, I feel very honored to know you and to see, to have seen behind like the curtains on some of the stuff and the personal decisions and the dynamic relationship that we have to identity. I had this funny thought as I was like writing the other day, in my, in my vote. It's like morning pages, but I kind of I write it when when it comes like 


Tonya Papanikolov  05:52

So sometimes this one was at night. But I'm laughing at myself because this like little thought came up in my brain of like, just like so why? Of like, Oh, like this will be the your last iteration of your identity. And you know, like, sometimes you've written you've written and like, Am I like other voices? Like what? Like who just Yeah, actually just said that? And I hope not. Because, like, it's such an iterative process as a creative


Rachel Saunders  06:20

as well.


Tonya Papanikolov  06:22

Where, yeah, and probably for a generation of people who've like really expanded beyond having one career for their whole life. But I think especially as a creative where there is this like dynamic relationship with who am I? And how is that evolving? And how do I define myself and being in this time of kind of identities. It's an interesting, it's an interesting process.


Rachel Saunders  06:46

Oh, my God, just endless death and rebirth. If you let it, you know, we can also just calcify and stay where we're at, which I think is almost rewarded, in a sense, in our society, you know, it's kind of, it kind of makes people uncomfortable when you mix it up, and you shift directions. Because we're so taught to value that security and that like, one secure path that we you know, pretend we have some kind of control over which, you know, in reality, we have very little and nothing is, is forever or really secure. So, learning this practice of like, being malleable and going through the death process and the rebirth process again, and again, has been quite a profound practice.


Tonya Papanikolov  07:42

What has if you, if you care to share what has that death process looked like? For you? Like how? Because we kind of, like start to mourn it before it happens. Right? So what what has that been like for you? And does it continue, I want to chat about, like, you know, pivots with you. And that kind of being this aspect that you've been familiar with?


Rachel Saunders  08:08

Yeah, I would say that the death portion. For me in this specific example of leaving a career path that I had really forged for myself that was, you know, made sense on paper, to just pivot into the unknown, it was really hard on my ego. And I was really used to feeling get, like, you know, kind of getting my self worth and my self esteem almost from this offering that I had kind of fine tuned and gotten pretty good at doing, you know, making and selling ceramics having a brand, you know, doing these launches, releases. 


Rachel Saunders  08:57

And when I chose to let that go over the choice of something even more aligned and something even more fulfilling and something even with greater impact. It was it was like a pretty messy and dark process behind the scenes. You know, I really had so many of those thoughts and voices coming up, like just telling me that like, you know, this was this, you know, the best is behind me now, and and, you know, it was just really uncomfortably quiet for an uncomfortable amount of time and especially coming off of that pattern of just been on this hamster wheel. 


Rachel Saunders  09:50

You know, especially when you're running your own business and you're busy and you kind of speaking for myself, I was quite addicted to busyness And, and just having all of that time and space filled with these things that I had to do, or these people that I had to, you know, do things for and stepping into that quiet space was so scary, it's almost like a psychedelic experience where you just you don't know where you're going, you just have to trust, you can't see three feet in front of you, you just have to keep going step by step. And I'm so grateful to have so much support around me. Just even through, you know, healers and intuitives, and my amazing family and friends and community, you know, who really allowed me to have some little bit of trust in this process that like, maybe everything would be okay. 


Rachel Saunders  10:48

And I would, you know, none of us ever really figure it out, I think on this planet in one lifetime, but, you know, get a sense of equilibrium once again. And it's yeah, like I said, it's been almost exactly a year since I did that. And it's probably been one of the most amazing. Well, it's definitely been one of the most amazing years of my life. And it's because of the polarity of the intensity of the challenge that it was so, so great. Yeah. Yeah, but it's, it's, you know, we have good weeks where we feel really good and confident and, and like, we know where we're going, and then the next week, not so much. And I've also gotten a little bit better in this process of observing that a little bit more versus over identifying with it and, and softening that all or nothing kind of thought process.


Tonya Papanikolov  11:48

There's so much wisdom in that. I wonder if you can speak to what? What cuz, you know, like, there's, like, you know, when you started hearing that voice, and at first you're like, I'm gonna ignore you. Like, I don't think this is I don't think this is real. What is that? Like? What's the process of any anything you can share about, like, how fast it takes you to trust yourself? Or the moments of like, self doubt. And like, was there a shift? Was it just like really being open to exploring the idea that helped you step into it more fully? Or like, what was that process like of like, okay, first, I first hear this, like, Whoa, I don't think I'm going to continue as a ceramicist in this way. How long did that take?


Rachel Saunders  12:40

Oh, longer than I would have liked in hindsight. But you know, the same? Absolutely. And yeah, yes. And everything happens exactly as it should. And I really saw this transition through the lens of, you know, a relationship, it felt like the ending of a very deep, transformative, powerful relationship. And I think in society, too, we're also kind of, you know, we're supposed to find our, our soulmate, immediately, and be with them forever, you know, that's kind of like what's rewarded. And for me, I've had a lot of really profound, romantic relationships in my life that have just, like, kept evolving. And someone, someone told me the other day, actually, they distilled this wisdom on me. It was like, you know, you stay in a relationship for as long as that person has something to teach you. 


Rachel Saunders  13:42

And I thought that was so so beautiful. And so, I really, I had experience in this voice in regards to some past relationships around you know, I don't, I don't I don't think this is serving me the best and vice versa, to stay in this but of course, you know, when things are so good on paper, or, you know, it's you've got so many logistics to look at, it's just a nightmare to even entertain a thought or a small voice like that. But I have gone through, you know, some initiations in my life that I think build that muscle and that trust muscle. And also, sometimes I just need things to get really uncomfortable and bad to push me out of the nest and that that's kind of where I got with my business. I was just so drained. 


Rachel Saunders  14:38

So fried, didn't have the values that I was really needing or the the priorities were a little bit jumbled at the end just because I I had to, you know, be selling a lot to to, to run everything and that just really felt like I was I was selling out a little bit of my soul. And so just just letting myself explore it. And the biggest thing that I did that started the most change that, you know, I didn't even have control over it was the universe kind of took took the reins, and it was just speaking it into existence to, you know, telling my close friends like, Hey, I don't know what I'm doing anymore. I think I need a change. I have no idea what that would look like. But just that little act in that little action of honesty, I think was so powerful, such a powerful catalyst. And then it almost felt like the universe was like, Oh, she's thinking about it. Oh, she might be ready. Like, let's let's bring her some resources. Let's Let's help her out a little bit. Yeah, so that's


Tonya Papanikolov  15:52

beautiful. I just got shivers. I love. I love that. I mean, I think the Thank you, sometimes, sometimes I have to just say things out loud. And I have to try them on, even if they're the most ridiculous ideas. And like, sometimes if I'm talking to Simon, my husband about it, like he, I have to sit like, oh, he'll take me seriously. And I'm like, Well, that's one way you could take me seriously. But like, I just need to air this out with with somebody I trust, like, I just need to play out this scenario to see how it makes me feel. And exactly. And then, like, as soon as that resonance starts to either be like, Oh, actually, I don't want that or holy shit. Like, this has got to happen. You start yet. Yeah, you know, how


Rachel Saunders  16:45

it lands in your body to is such a powerful thing. My parents now have a really beautiful inspiring relationship wasn't always this case. But now I really look to them as inspiration of like, true and lasting love. And they have this concept where they just say like, no bad ideas, like they just are always just throwing things out to each other, and they're just, you know, supportive not. And that's such a special skill to have and offer someone you know, I think it's so easy to totally be critical and kind of like shoot something down. And I've just kind of kept that in mind. Just even with my friends. And, you know, just the people close to me, it's just to really allow that space for just like anything to kind of come out and just whatever.


Tonya Papanikolov  17:34

Yeah, and for anything to be, too. It's like, yeah, sometimes it's easy. Oh, I think yeah, different relationships to like, the ability to bring some objectivity to a decision like that, especially when you're impacted in a close dynamic to is really an exercise of like Yeah, can I remove myself from from this and like, really think about what's best for this for this human?


Rachel Saunders  18:01

Yes. And also, I just want to say quickly that I did utilize my human design chart in a part of this process, too. Because you know, our, our What is it your authority is kind of your decision making process and some people actually are sounding board authorities and so they need to talk everything out and just have someone just be a listening but a soundboard for them to actually process is it?


Tonya Papanikolov  18:30

I'm gonna talk it out. Yeah. Oh,


Rachel Saunders  18:33

interesting. I'm, I'm an emotional authority. And so I can't make any decisions in the present. I have to sleep on everything. And then I really just need to wait until I feel like a sense of sweetness in my body when I'm making a decision versus like, I guess I have to do this because this is like the right decision. And waiting until I almost had that like somatic response in regards to what decision I was going to say yes to was also a really cool


Tonya Papanikolov  19:08

tool. Yeah. Wow. Can we okay, I really am excited to dive into some human design aspects. So like, what we're both projectors? Oh, yeah.


Rachel Saunders  19:23

Oh, yeah. What we get a lot done together. Yeah. I


Tonya Papanikolov  19:28

mean, I'd be beautiful pace to. Yeah. Okay. So let's talk about let's talk about our theory. I'll reset first because we just launched that this week. And what a I mean, like unbelievable response. Truly.


Rachel Saunders  19:48

You know, it makes me so giddy. Yeah. Because it just like having that kind of response to something that you You just are so genuinely passionate and inspired about yourself. And just having that like resonance, it's like sharing that same frequency. It's just it is the best thing in the world.


Tonya Papanikolov  20:12

It really is. And it couldn't have lunch at any other time. Like, we were like, oh, maybe we should do it on the new moon. And then that didn't work out. I think what I love the most is like, there was just such so much flow and ease, which is like all of what I'm calling in. Same in that, like, it's gonna happen when it happens.


Rachel Saunders  20:32

And yes, I would like to say something on that quickly. Yeah, just as I keep blurting things out, I found it interesting. Because before we had maybe like a week or so before we had launched, we were really in the nitty gritty and we had so many like logistics to do in the website to finish and all this copy and all of these things, and it just felt it was at that point, like before, the the like climax where it's just like, Oh, you're climbing up this hill? 


Rachel Saunders  20:59

Is it going to, you know, come to fruition? Anything. I had a session with my somatic therapist, and it was kind of lamenting on like, Oh, I just want like, you know, my life to just feel effortless. And like all the projects I do to just feel effortless, and she kind of stopped me she was like, what's up with the word effortless? Like, what is effortless in life? Truly. And I was like, oh, yeah, you're kind of right. And she's like, What about the joy of the effort? And I was like, oh, okay, I kind of like that. Because I was kind of almost demonizing the things in my life that were requiring a lot of muscle just because I think it was like a combination of so many things. And then kind of like, the last day before we launched, I had so much to do, and I was working for like 14 hours on it or something straight. And I was just loving every minute of it. And it was just like, the joy of the effort that just felt so special, like such a gift.


Tonya Papanikolov  21:58

I love I love that so much. Also because like I I'm also learning to have a different relationship with the challenge. Because there is a lot there's like, inherently a lot in of that like as playful and joyful and like useful as we can as we can have. It's also like, I definitely grow the most through the challenge. And I can see that stretching is also a necessity. And so I'm also Yeah, I'm just like, How can I change my relationship with, with what is hard. It's a tightrope walk of like, knowing when to walk away to some extent, like, Okay, well, I'm not going to push this any further because it's clearly I'm coming up against a wall. Versus Yeah, the inherent challenges that are just going to, like, grow us into who we're meant to become.


Rachel Saunders  22:53

I know it's a very nuanced kind of thing to look at. And I've actually just been getting back into, like, going to workout classes, and just after being truly so just not in, in shape. I think just like the past four years, you know, post pandemic, I just haven't had the same relationship to like, exercise and physical discipline. And just, you know, the first few classes I went to were so hard and annoying and uncomfortable, and it was like, it was like making me so mad. And then I would just kind of think like, okay, you know, just hold it for one second longer. And then that kind of, you know, cumulative effect, builds that muscle and it builds that resilience and it's like, you know, the most basic analogy, but I've just really been thinking a lot about that lately.


Tonya Papanikolov  23:51

I love I love that. I mean, I sometimes think about how being a founder is like being a mental athlete. Because it is and there's there's a really potent aspect to like honing something that can require a lot of like mentally coaching yourself you know, like and definitely in an exercise class like like there's just there's so there's like so much of life lesson in that moment of like, I want to quit like this is just this is brutal. I can't do it. Like the voices and then also the joys of being like holy shit. I just finished that. Like I feel incredible. And the incremental like daily what builds when you when you kind of have a little bit of that mentality of like,


Rachel Saunders  24:47

yeah, it's such a balance because I'm also like, very pro path of least resistance like I love when things I'm trying to stop using the word effortless, but like I love when things just truly flow at. But it's, it can look different in some ways to like even in relationships you like we were in relationships to evolve, like, it's not just all for pleasure. So like that grit that we do experience is what makes the pearl or whatever you need. Try it with someone else. But yeah, I think it just really comes down to that intuition piece to and seeing what you are getting out of it. And if it is still feeling good, and kind of just allowing that check in process to, to come up throughout, throughout any kind of project work, love, play, pleasure, whatever. I think it's something that it's so, so important to afford ourselves.


Tonya Papanikolov  25:57

Yeah. I love that you mentioned that. Just the aspect of like, checking in, I feel like with with with being projectors, I feel like there's a lot of unlearning that we have to do. Because of the just the society we exist in. And, and also, I'm reminded of just the constant like checking in of, of, I think just like the process of life unfolding, really, and how, and how we often just need to remind ourselves of so much like, I try and remind myself of things like on a somewhat daily basis. And I'm like, sometimes I'll forget and I'll be like, I just I just remembered that yesterday, like


Rachel Saunders  26:39

Oh, am I forgetting that keynotes all around me? Drink water. Yeah, like the human condition


Tonya Papanikolov  26:46

and our our sleepiness. Which is like a constant work in progress. But yeah, how do you like will you tell me about what when you when you uncovered, you know, your human design and understanding your a projector? What? What was the shift that took place for you? How did you start to understand yourself better.


Rachel Saunders  27:07

So I discovered human design, probably about eight years ago now. And I think one of the first things that stuck out was, oh, projectors are only supposed to work three hours a day. And I was like, what? Because I at that point, I think I was just beginning my ceramics business. And I was shipping orders, throwing pieces, firing, cleaning, packing, promoting all of these things. 12 hours a day, and every day I would come home and just crash on the floor and like cry and be so overstimulated and exhausted and just really not know what was wrong with me, because this is what the world asks of us. 


Rachel Saunders  27:51

And this is what we're supposed to be doing. And this is normal. And even just seeing that, and, and understanding how my energy works. And it's not just about oh, we don't, projectors don't have energy, we can only work three hours a day, but it's like, no, when you're tuned into your energy, you can be so much more efficient in that were any any more than that you're just kind of like running on fumes are burning out and you know, it's just not necessary, you can you can spend that time replenishing your reserves to be even more impactful and more efficient. But of course, at that time, I was like, How the hell am I ever going to live a life that respects this, and again, it was just like, a constant. Journey and, and process and even today, like I, in my life, I have to constantly remind myself of when I'm people pleasing or, or trying to just constantly taking on too much, let's be real. 


Rachel Saunders  28:53

But it's just, you know, every day that we are blessed to get on this earth, it's just like a new playground for doing things differently, or better or softer, sweeter, or, you know, so it's just been really fun. For me, I feel like it's such a helpful tool. And it's just, it's, it's just, it's all been an experiment and you know, people who kind of are into human design do they do frame it as an experiment because it's a new modality and it was channeled by a random dude in the 80s or something. So it's a little you know, funny, but I have experimented with it and seeing profound impacts. So I'm a big fan, especially for us. projectors, reflectors, and everyone honestly,


Tonya Papanikolov  29:48

yeah, and I do you know, I do still wonder what I think it's a work in progress for me but like, you know, Being a being a business owner, like I know Erin Claire Jones, who I love her stuff I and my whole team has her designs, we talk about them, and integrate them into just like our understanding of one another. But I do. I do wonder, you know, like, what? What that ideal like, is there an ideal, like, the ideal kind of situation for a projector business owner looks like and I, and I'm finessing and I'm really proud of where I've gotten to. 


Tonya Papanikolov  30:32

But there's, yeah, I think it just all comes back to this piece of like the nuance where ultimately, you're going to have the moments and they're going to be plenty plentiful, where you're overextending. And working hard, because you created this thing, and you love it. And there's a ton of responsibility that comes with it. And, and setting up a team in an ideal dynamic and sphere, where there's space for these understandings and the setting of expectations, which of course, is like, often top down. So being able to create some of that in, in the things we make, especially team dynamics, I feel like, are pretty essential. Yeah,


Rachel Saunders  31:18

I think that's actually one of the reasons why I love it so much is it just helps me understand and, and value people for their, their nature and their natural state so much more. Whereas, you know, we're used to kind of viewing the world through this homogenized lens. And, you know, now I can look at all of my, you know, wild, energetic friends who are bouncing between all these different projects as just like, a manifesting generator in their flow doing exactly what they should be doing. 


Rachel Saunders  31:54

And I love that for them, instead of being like, why don't you just pick something and stick with it? Yeah, it's just like, fully embracing and, and just honoring our authentic selves, and knowing that it looks different for everyone. And I love using it as a tool in a team dynamic, too. And making every making sure everyone is in a role that is fulfilling to them and taps into their inherent gifts. It's it's so fun, but I do think with like any school of thought, it can become hindering when you again, over identify with it any kind of, you know, spiritual practice or religion, like, I always kind of, always, if I if I find myself getting too into something, I do like to kind of take a step back and just reassess will you know, what is true for me in the moment, versus like, what someone tells me is true for me, based on my birth time.


Tonya Papanikolov  32:47

Yeah, it's nice to take that pause. Totally. And speaking of Have you gotten into gene keys at all?


Rachel Saunders  32:54

Oh, my God, that one feels so overwhelming. But I'm curious.


Tonya Papanikolov  33:00

Yeah. Yes. Same. I started to like, read about it, I have all of the gene keys, like on my phone that I can listen to, but it's really intense. There's, there's a lot to understand. And like, I don't I don't totally follow it yet. But I'm intrigued.


Rachel Saunders  33:20

I feel like I'll get there. At some point. I have a friend Alma who's really into it. Oh, cool.


Tonya Papanikolov  33:24

I feel like that one too, is like, I don't, unless you're gonna devote, you know, a long term study to it. I feel like so much goes into understanding you individually. Because of because I think there's like, I don't know, 150 keys. So to really become like, you know, really knowledgeable in somebody else's dynamic, like, expression of those keys would take a while, whereas it's kind of a bit easier today to us, but I bet I know that they came from a similar download. Right?


Rachel Saunders  33:56

Well, I mean, everything did when you think about it, I remember telling someone about human design be like, yeah, some guy channeled it in the 80s. Was it? Totally, it was there, like what the, you know, and then they're like, Well, you know, I guess everything was channeled through some, quote unquote, crazy person at some point or another. And it's, it's true,


Tonya Papanikolov  34:20

right, totally. It's true. Yeah, it's so true. Okay, well, Gene keys will save for some future.


Rachel Saunders  34:28

I'm excited. Yeah. Yeah.


Tonya Papanikolov  34:32

Cool. So anything specific else about kind of tidbits of projector that you identify with or tips actually, one one thing on that is I that I love chatting about briefly is just like, the aspect of bitterness. I found that yeah, I found that when really like I had to sit with it for a while and I still kind of find that to be a difficult Quality to really know when I'm in, like, sometimes it's obvious but other times subtle. So what's your what's your experience with that aspect of? What is it? So it's our not self theme? Yes.


Rachel Saunders  35:18

Well, you know, it can be, it's been quite plentiful in my life at times, and but yeah, catching it and recognizing it is something I could definitely do better at because it can be a bit insidious. And there's something almost subtle about bitterness. It's only like, anger or rage on the surface. It's like, you know, that, yes, I can. It's pretty easy for me to get into that state when I'm tired and don't have my needs met. 


Rachel Saunders  35:57

And I was also talking about this in my session with my somatic therapist last week about kind of when we see other people who have things we want, and it's almost we experienced that like envy, or sometimes for me, it's like bitterness, like, Why them and not me, you know, I work, especially with projectors, because it sometimes feels like we need to work 10 times harder than everyone else to to, like be seen or validated or recognized. And that's just our own thing that we need to get over because it's not true. And it's like, yeah, we were talking about how, when you do have those feelings come up, it's usually a sign that you're not doing that yourself, in a way. 


Rachel Saunders  36:44

So it's like, you know, as an example, if someone is getting recognition for something that they've done, and you're kind of like, why are they getting it and not me, at least in my case, usually, if I'm, if I start feeling that way about someone, it's because I am refusing to be seen, I am refusing to put myself out there, I am just like, stuck in my little scared, you know, energetic corner. And it's just kind of funny to think about, because we all have the capacity to be seen, and to get the things that we want out of life. 


Rachel Saunders  37:21

But it's also easy to just not take that action. And that was kind of an interesting. And so just to think about it in my contexts, you know, when I do have these feelings come up, and I get a little bitter, and I'm kind of a bit like cynical and judgmental. It's like, well, you know, what am I doing? Like, am I in the ring? Like, am I showing up and kind of participating? And so that's been kind of, kind of helpful for me. And then what is our success? That's, that's when we're in flow and Oh, my God, best feeling? Yes. Feeling?


Tonya Papanikolov  37:59

What is the what's isn't there? Like a unique relationship as well with like being seen as projectors? Isn't that or energetic that up? Yeah, well,


Rachel Saunders  38:09

no, it's, it's totally, it's like, it's, it's, I guess, you know, and again, the languaging, you have to be careful because it can either be helpful or a hindrance. But and it's kind of semantics to it's like, everyone has their own language for it. But I've read and kind of been told that projectors have almost like this pointy, penetrative aura, versus let's say, a generators, like, sparkly everywhere, or, and, of course, that doesn't sound great, but there's some truth to it, I think we are special power is to really see deeply into people and situations. 


Rachel Saunders  38:56

And when we don't have that invitation to kind of give our advice or see what share what we see, it can be quite jarring for people and, and just not go over well. So I think a big part of our process is to kind of sit back in our energy and really just focus on what is most fulfilling to us. And this vision that I really kind of work with is just like being this lighthouse and making sure your light is turned on so people can find you. And it's I think it's just not the best strategy, at least in my experience to you know, put yourself out there and just be say, hey, you know, look at me, like I want to be seen I want to be recognized it just doesn't really work so well. 


Rachel Saunders  39:50

Or at least you know, it won't feel as fulfilling or lasting and in my experience, every person that's ever come into my life, even opportunity In these business wise, it's all come from them kind of finding me when I'm in this, like very just authentic, magnetized state of focusing on what I like what I'm good at what I have to share. And I think another crucial aspect of that is really allowing yourself to be found. So it's not like going and knocking on everyone's door and being like, Hey, look at me, it's more so putting yourself in a position to be seen and to be able to have that recognition. That has been a pretty important. Yeah, practice that I've been working, because you're like, wait, where is everyone? Why isn't like, Oh, I'm not showing up at all, I can't be found. Yeah, like 100%.


Tonya Papanikolov  40:50

And I love I love the idea of like, we live in, in, in like a social world where social media is ever present, everybody has the opportunity to build a personal brand, or a business in whatever way, shape or form they want. And the way I see it, too, a little bit is just like, what you said about us being in that deep flow state is like, there's a lot of, there has to be a lot of authenticity, I feel in those moments of like, pure inspiration, and really what lights up our soul. And that is so so contagious. 


Tonya Papanikolov  41:31

When anybody when any type of person is there, it's like, so magnetic, and obvious, and like, oh, my gosh, I want to be around that. And what I like about, at least like our current, the way we exist currently, and kind of opportunities for projectors are that if you can create your little world, and allow yourself to get over, you know, the ways that we hold ourselves health self back from being seen, which is common with a lot of people, like you have the opportunity to put yourself out there to create your world or your version of, you know, how you see things. And that in and of itself is so powerful in how that can draw things in versus like the hard pitches, you know, like, exactly, yeah, yeah. Yeah.


Rachel Saunders  42:16

And I feel like you need to kind of get comfortable with not having this conditional relationship of do something to get something. And the more you can experiment with, and get that practice of just doing the things that you love, just to do them, you know, if no one else sees it, if no one else ever buys it, whatever, getting really comfortable to just deepen that practice. That's when things magically can evolve and become what they're meant to. Versus like, I want to do this so I can be seen, and then I can be validated, and then I can start a successful company. That just almost never works.


Tonya Papanikolov  43:11

Yeah, it's so true. Yeah. So true. Well, let's shift gears a little bit. And talk about your love for Greece. And what we have planned for the theory recept


Rachel Saunders  43:27

Oh, my God. Yes. How long do we have? As


Tonya Papanikolov  43:30

long as we as long as we want? Except I feel like I'm going to need to eat a banana soon. Getting a bit hungry. No, I mean, I'm, yeah, I mean, excited is an understatement. I'm so thrilled to be creating this with you. You would Yeah. I would just love to hear about your, your deep connection with Greece as a as a land and your experiences there.


Rachel Saunders  43:59

Yeah, gladly. I was, I would say, energetically called to Greece, which I later found out is absolutely a thing. I think maybe with just land and geographic locations in general. I think they, you know, obviously there's a spirit there. And I think sometimes they can extend that invitation to you. And I felt it with Greece so strongly. I think it was in 2019 I just developed this obsession hyper fixation. started watching all these Greek films. I think it was before 2020 I just, I had no it was 2020 because I was like okay, well, now I'm definitely not going to Greece because I had planned and travel had shut down so I just created this like mini Grecian world of my own on Vancouver Island.


Rachel Saunders  44:57

You know, just like going to the local Mediterranean deli and making myself Greek salads to bring to the beach. And just like reading Leonard Cohen and, you know, just immersing myself in this like, idyllic, like 70s bohemian dreamscape that, so much of what I love was birthed from. And I started, it started to manifest in my work, you know, my, my designs started becoming more influenced. And you know, when the time was ready, I, I ended up stumbling upon this incredible artists residency that was located on Crete. And I applied and I got accepted, and I went, and it was absolutely life changing in so many ways, I think it was two or three weeks, in this tiny, tiny village on Crete, which is a whole unique experience to itself. 


Rachel Saunders  46:02

And it was my first it was my second artists residency, third artists residency, but second in a group. And it was just the most life changing experience. Even just communing with the land, and the, the way of life. And what I felt so strongly from being there was this, like, fertile energy for creation and love and vitality. And I just felt super charged from being there. And just my inspiration took off, and I just felt so genuinely soul aligned. I mean, it's just, it's hard not to be in a place like that. And I ended up going back the following year for another artist residency on the island of Aedra. And that was incredible, a whole nother experience, like very different from the one before, but in the most magical way, as well. 


Rachel Saunders  47:11

And just crazy things happen there, like just the people you meet, and it's just feels like this cosmic vortex that, you know, magics working overtime. And so I just, you know, the first time I was there, I was like, wow, grease is gonna be a profound part of my life forever. Like, it's just, you know, I don't know if it's a past life thing, or if it's an artist thing. But it's an incredibly special place. And so it's like, my beyond privilege to get to offer this experience and work with Zoya who will be hosting the retreat with us and her connection to the island of folegandros. And the land there and her practice, you know, it feels very important to properly honor the land that we're on, and you know, just just really be working in harmony as much as possible as a visitor on this foreign soil. 


Rachel Saunders  48:19

So it's just, yeah, it just it's a place that seems to profoundly support rest and replenishment of the soul and magic and creation. And so, I mean, it just there couldn't be a more perfect place for our first experience like this.


Tonya Papanikolov  48:41

Yeah. I love I love hearing you talk about Greece. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. It's been it's really interesting that I went to Greece for the first time in I think it was 2010. And where did you go? I went to went to to Athens Santorini or like yeah, which was like very very touristy but oh my goodness. Like such insane beauty. And then we went to another island which was I think we went to Mykonos and then and then a third small island I can't remember which one it was. And I just also had this feeling of like, well if my answer like I am like that's my my heritage is isn't really well. It's Macedonia and Greece or like,


Rachel Saunders  49:38

all know that. Yeah.


Tonya Papanikolov  49:41

Those are like those are my people.


Rachel Saunders  49:42

So I have say your last name, pepper Nicola of pepper lick and pepper. Sorry, habit. Love, love. I've known you for so long but I just haven't said it out loud. I love it so beautiful.


Tonya Papanikolov  49:58

But are we Your last name was different, my grandfather changed it, it's more of like people think I'm Russian because the last name or some other, I often get Russian because of the oath. But my grandfather changed our last name when he was crossing a border in the war. So, so that we couldn't we didn't have less of a name, but, but those lands have been really, you know, kind of tumultuous in the borders. And like, it was all it's just the all the same region, essentially. But a lot of Macedonia was Greece, like my grandmother grew up in what is now Greece, which used to be, but she speaks Greek.


Rachel Saunders  50:37

So you have deep roots, I mean, that'll be so potent,


Tonya Papanikolov  50:41

gonna take them into Yes, yes, it really will be. I'm, I'm really, really looking forward to that. But also just yeah, like the power of the power of gathering, which, as you know, to, like, in, I learned this so much through Kundalini yoga. And like, really what happens in a group setting, when you have not just like my own consciousness, but the consciousness of like 20 Other people coming to elevate together and heal together and create experiences, which I'm sure you've you've, you know, had your fair share of to whenever you have a practice or in your artists residencies. 


Tonya Papanikolov  51:23

But when you start to practice together to there are such profound shifts that happen in, in group settings. And on these types of experiences. I remember my first solo, I started to, I started to travel alone, by going on, like retreats, which were in all sorts of parts of the world. And often I would be like, making a big decision or going through a transition or a pivot, or just connecting to myself on a deep on some, some form of a deep level to, like, find my courage to do this thing, or, you know, step into this next version of myself. So, I am I'm honored and just so so excited to create.


Rachel Saunders  52:14

I mean, that is, beyond all the beauty and the magic and you know, the idyllic dreamscape. It's like, it's the community that is the most transformational and impactful and, you know, long lasting element of these experiences, and, yeah, that the momentum that occurs, and just also the wisdom sharing, you know, and, and the resource sharing, and it's, it's, I think one of our, our greatest detriments in society is, is that we don't get those vulnerable circles or, you know, intimate gatherings as much as we should, where we can be held and seen and share, like, where we, you know, we have social media, but that is not an authentic, you know, a true place to share your entire essence, it's a snapshot of you.


Rachel Saunders  53:22

And so to physically be together on these very healing lands, and in the incredibly cleansing ocean is just, it's so much and what I just love that I've, you know, experience time and time again, throughout my whole life is like, you get to a group of people together, no matter who they are, you know, what the circumstances are most of the time, and you're together for a certain amount of time, you just become this family. And that's my favorite feeling in the world, I kind of grew up as an only child and in a smaller family. And so that feeling to me is so moving, and getting those experiences however you can and you know, every experience I've done artists, residencies, communal gatherings, like I've made some of my best friends out of they still to this day, in that context.


Tonya Papanikolov  54:20

Yeah, I love I love what you said too, about the like, coming to coming to spaces where we can like, really be ourselves and how quickly like this is gonna be for us to facilitate but like how quickly can we shed the layers? Right create the space for like, like the most vulnerability or whatever, you know, this people are comfortable with, like that version, because you're right, like on the social media stage, there's, or in life in general. It's like it's so easy to hold. 


Tonya Papanikolov  54:56

It's so easy to hold the, the joys and the Sella Patience and like the moments of life that we want to put out there. And to, to be able to feel a sense of like, acceptance and being seen and being heard and held by a group of strangers, like, is so transformative. I had this thought as I was showering today, where I was like, Maybe Maybe this is obvious, but like, whoa, like, every single aspect of what is happening in our collective happens to us on an individual level, like, like,


Rachel Saunders  55:32

the, my, every time in the macro, cause


Tonya Papanikolov  55:34

Yeah, like every aspect of how I could destroy a relationship or a person, or every way that I, as an individual can hold my highest self and also have this version of me that is my lowest self like, right? Like the decisions that a country has to make, like, Oh, I've made wrong decisions, the decisions that like, like, it's all just this reflection, of like, on on larger and larger scales and smaller and smaller scales, but


Rachel Saunders  56:08

yeah, I mean, that's very, yeah, that's, that's profound. And we are absolutely incarnated in these times to really hammer that one home. And you kind of touched on this earlier, but you know, just in in by sharing our honest, authentic, vulnerable selves, by proxy that allows those around us to feel more safe and able to share that. And I mean, in the grander context of things these days, especially, I just feel like, if you're not using your privilege, or your existence to help others get free in some capacity, like, what are we doing, what is the point, like, we need to be constantly just like pulling people up, to to just like, elevate as much as we can and doing whatever it takes an often it's just like, the simple act of being honest and sharing that true human essence, which I think we just really deeply miss out on. 


Rachel Saunders  57:12

Because so many our interactions are online or over text and you can't, you know, like the even like, the I feel like a lot of miscommunications that happen or something happen online or over text. And it's like, if you actually were just sitting in a room with that person, you would kind of just sit them for totally be their human self. And you know, that probably wouldn't have even happened. So, yeah,


Tonya Papanikolov  57:39

it's so true. It's like, when someone's coming at you, and you're like, hey, here's my number. Do you want to give me a call? Right? And that's just like, poof, yeah. Wait. Oh, yeah, you're showing Oh, yeah,


Rachel Saunders  57:50

I exist. I'm


Tonya Papanikolov  57:51

not I can't hide behind the screen.


Rachel Saunders  57:53

I love those moments. Yeah, yeah.


Tonya Papanikolov  57:58

There's, yeah, yeah. And there's, there's such a craving for, like, coming together again, thank goodness in. And,


Rachel Saunders  58:08

and, you know, I think talking so much about like vulnerability, and all of this has like a more serious tone to it, too. Because it's like, you know, we are about to experience transformation and growth through these experiences. But also, in this specific, ethereal reset context, we are also coming together to play and just be our inner joy, children together and create and just I think we just, I mean, we just, we need a break, and we need to experience those moments of truth. Simple pleasure. Totally. Totally. I'm excited for that, too.


Tonya Papanikolov  58:51

Me too. Well, I guess for anybody listening. We sold out faster than we thought we would. And that's such a blessing. And there's a waitlist. So weightless waitlist we have, anyways, you and I have to chat about more logistics. What's, what's gonna come next. But there's,


Rachel Saunders  59:20

we've really seen the resonance that has come from an offering like this, and it's just so encouraging. And I just feel like this will be the first of many. And yeah, I hope we can all continue to foster these communal experiences in any capacity in our lives, even just in our living rooms, you know, or over. Group dinners. Like it's that experience is just, it's so crucial to our mental health, physical health, spiritual health. So yeah,


Tonya Papanikolov  59:58

Yeah, like, I think I feel like it's like a personally, creating this experience is like, what would I want to do? Like what? What is the ideal? How would I want to travel? How would I want to like bring my parents to this like I this is like this is it's it's just it's a beautiful way to experience to go through life to get closer to people like I would I want my whole family to come. Oh


Rachel Saunders  1:00:25

my God, my mom was pissed. Because she's like why? Yeah. And oh my god, my Nana would have been in me Oh, so yeah, we got to figure this out. But I mean, I truly I thought like it might take months to fill up I didn't, I have never, you know, you just never know. But it's so it's just so nice to be creating in collaboration and in community and kind of have that back and forth. And also when one more thing is, when we did release it, I sent out a email to my sanctuary community. 


Rachel Saunders  1:01:05

And just just kind of speaking from the heart plain text email, like you had actually suggested, which I love the idea of versus like a big fancy branded email. And I was just sharing what it meant to me and my experience and in doing it and how it felt a little bit like a leap of faith just because I hadn't done something like this before. And so many people wrote in and said, Oh, my God, I had this, like, exact experience on my vision board, or I've been writing about this in my morning pages, or, you know, this was something that I, I really called in and put on my manifestation list in the past year. And it just really showed me how we are all co collaborate,


Tonya Papanikolov  1:01:51

like 100% that, you know, like, it's not just us, it's yeah, it's like we picked up on because that's like, that's the thing, you pick it up, and I'm an artist


Rachel Saunders  1:02:02

or a business owner, whatever, you know, in whatever capacity that's like one of the most incredible abilities to tap into, is just to kind of like, okay, what do people what do people need right now? What is what is going to be of greatest value? So I thought that was really cool.


Tonya Papanikolov  1:02:22

Yeah, and just like alchemize up, I mean, there's so much there is so much magic to it. I love like recruitments the way he talks about the creative process, too. And like, essentially, these ideas are floating out there. And yeah, every who's gonna grab it, like everybody has the opportunity to take that in and create their version of like the expression, you know, there's a million ways it could be expressed. And, and, yeah, and


Rachel Saunders  1:02:49

it's always so much easier not to do it. Oh, you know, it's so much easier just to be like, maybe someone else would do it, you know? And it's again, it's that totally to like, well, you know, that work is what creates those most gratifying, fulfilling experiences.


Tonya Papanikolov  1:03:07

Yeah, and the beauty to have like, how many times it's not meant for you? Right, when, like, the ones the ideas that come to fruition are the ones that have, have their have their legs that are meant for for you to carry, like, there's, there's so much a ethereal magic to it. And I think that's also part of what we want to allow an experience of a group of people to tap into is this, like, moving towards that creative state of life. 


Tonya Papanikolov  1:03:42

And as I study more about, you know, in my, in my master's studies, like mind body medicine, I'm like, oh, yeah, healing is creative. Healing is like, catching a forest especially because I'm very fascinated in spontaneous remission. And like, what happens in that is a creative state in the brain. Like, it's, it's, it's all creativity and like inviting that into healing and medicine and like, there's just there's a really beautiful bridge, that creativity speaks to that exists in all of us that we want to activate and all people.


Rachel Saunders  1:04:20

Yeah, but you need that space. You need that energetic space to get there. And I think, our intention while I know that our intention with this experience is to allow that space, you know, we don't we're not running you from sunset sunrise to sundown like all around the island, we are giving those moments of space to let these downloads come and to receive, you know, your body's intelligence and the intuitive messages that come because, you know, we're all we're all a little too busy these days and And yeah, it's in these experiences where miracles happen. Like it's, I'd like to know more about spontaneous remission. Yeah,


Tonya Papanikolov  1:05:10

but yeah, again have a session on it. I


Rachel Saunders  1:05:13

would love that. Okay, there's going to be so much good. She's going to be just totally. Yeah, I'm so excited.


Tonya Papanikolov  1:05:22

Well, I would love you to tell us a little bit more about the sanctuary. And your beautiful offering there.


Rachel Saunders  1:05:31

Yeah, so the sanctuary is an online membership community that I created January of 2023, I released it on my birthday. So it's also an Aquarius. And it was really my life boat out of my last situation, just with my with my ceramics business, I didn't know what to change or how to get out of it, or you know how to make these big shifts in my life. But I knew I needed to start somewhere. And I knew it needed to be like, just again, what we talked about, it's just almost just for me, I wanted to create this most incredible online destination for inspiration, and all of my archives and all of my resources and, you know, my lists of healers and visual inspiration, and the place to connect and community and to learn and take workshops, I teach, I bring in guests, and just a place to truly be nourished and inspired. 


Rachel Saunders  1:06:42

So I did that. I created that from scratch, I guess a year and a half ago now, not not having any really expectations, but I wanted to just at least try it, you know, for my own. Almost my own pleasure and experimentation and practice of like, you know, kind of trying new things to open up new doorways. And it's just evolved, you know, again, through community collaboration into the most incredible one of the most incredible aspects of my life. And so it's, it's something that is also constantly evolving and growing into, you know, what the community wants and the community needs. And, and also, it's just a place where I can totally share from my heart and an unfiltered way that I just like, don't feel super inspired to do on social media anymore.


Rachel Saunders  1:07:39

It's just like my safe place. So there's like diary entries, my collection of all my playlists for certain moods, my favorite supplements, you know, all of these different aspects, I wanted to create an online version of like, basically, my ideal of a retreat center. So there's the cafe, a studio, the library and the spa. And I'm just it's, it's, it was the life, boat life raft that allowed me to, you know, just have the capacity and ability to kind of shift from one direction to another. And now, because it's been an expression, so rooted in my deepest truest passions, it's just like, grown so beautifully, kind of on its own and naturally. So that's kind of my primary focus right now. Which just feels so good, because it's just a blend of everything I naturally love.


Tonya Papanikolov  1:08:42

Yeah, that's so beautiful. That's so So yeah, that's very inspiring.


Rachel Saunders  1:08:49

Yeah, thank you. And it's nice, because it just feels like there's no cap to it. Like it can just evolve and transcend into any way it really wants to go. Because I think you know, the things we create, kind of take on their own essence and identities and want to they want to work together to evolve in that way. And so, you know, going back to the ethereal reset like that what we're going to be offering is kind of an in person expression of what I tried to offer online. So you know, for the people who can't be there with us, regrettably, I'm going to be sharing lots of behind the scenes and you know, the teachings and the wisdom that comes from it and oh my god all the incredible photos we're gonna take and films we're gonna make and soundtracks we're gonna get it's just yeah, it's an endless endless


Tonya Papanikolov  1:09:52

Yeah, it's it's really the outfits


Rachel Saunders  1:09:55

we're gonna wear. Wow, I've


Tonya Papanikolov  1:09:57

already thought I've already thought about them. I was like, Wait, do we need to get like to me to find somebody to


Rachel Saunders  1:10:04

help us with you to work with someone that like video and content? Because we're also gonna we had a lot of we've had a lot of offers, which is amazing.


Tonya Papanikolov  1:10:13

Yeah, I was thinking about chatting with you about that. Because I think, yeah, I think it will be really helpful. For


Rachel Saunders  1:10:19

  1. So cool. Yeah, we have so much to capture. Yeah, truly?


Tonya Papanikolov  1:10:25

Well, I am so thrilled that this year is bringing us even closer. And for the adventure, and like the, the, this this beautiful ease that we've experienced. Although Yeah, it's like, it's not it's not easy putting something like this out. But I feel that now that it's out, it gets. Yeah, the logistics or, you know, some of them, the big ones are behind us. And now it's like the ease of creation. And I just love the the, you know, the way we've worked together thus far, which has been really dynamic, and like, My Grades anyways, like, it's just been like, kind of effortless and like, Hey, I'm doing this. And doing this. I


Rachel Saunders  1:11:12

know, we've had such an incredible, like, intuitive flow. And it's wild, because, you know, like, we've known each other for years, but we, you know, we meet up every time we're in LA or something, we go for a nice dinner, Erawan, whatever. But like, we haven't spent that much time together. We haven't like, together. I, I think when I first learned, like, I followed you for a while, and then you did a beautiful dinner at on the island. Right? And that's kind of when I was like, Oh my God, who is this woman. 


Rachel Saunders  1:11:46

But it was kind of one of those things where it's like, well, you don't really know how something's gonna go and collaborations can go all sorts of ways. And this one, just, I'm so grateful. It's been so much fun working with you. And now we get to do it in real life too. So yeah, yeah, such a treat such


Tonya Papanikolov  1:12:05

a treat. Well, I ask every guest to just share any message prayer intention that you'd want to leave with the audience today.


Rachel Saunders  1:12:30

I think a big one that I'm been working with and implementing that can be sometimes a little hard for me lately, but it's been really, incredibly rewarding me in many different ways is the concept of being open to having things show up in different ways that you might expect, at different times, in different packages, and kind of surrender the control of curating that exact delivery. And the more you can surrender in that I think the more magic is allowed for it to come in the most aligned, authentic way. 


Rachel Saunders  1:13:24

That's, that's been a theme for me lately. And it's hard because I really like to control and control. Yeah, but the more I just like, kind of hold my palms to the sky and be like, you do it universe like you show me the best way iteration. Like, I'm just a little human over here. I actually don't know everything. Surrendering that, you know, my favorite book, which I call my Bible is the book Letting Go by David R. Hawkins. And I mean, talk about, you know, forgetting things, and then remembering Oh, yeah, I need to be letting go more. That's an endless practice. But that's what I'm going to offer today.


Tonya Papanikolov  1:14:13

Thank you, thank you. I love our conversations. Always. This felt like a just just a behind the scenes chat that you and I often have. And I'm so grateful for you. I'm grateful for your existence, what you put out in the world, how you move through the world, your integrity, in who you are through and through and through, and the beautiful artistry that you create in every aspect of who you are and your being. And just yeah, I'm so grateful for you. Thank you for coming on and sharing your wisdom today. Wow.


Rachel Saunders  1:14:53

Thank you so much, Tonya. I mean, likewise and beyond. I feel so deeply encouraged and supported by To you and, you know, I don't know, your auras something else. I mean, you're such an incredibly special person who just elevates everyone who gets to be in the privilege of, you know, your essence. So, I'm so grateful I'm on and on and on, but I could and they're a great interviewer think, Oh, I enjoyed this conversation so much. I feel like we could just keep yapping for hours but same, like Why eat bananas


Tonya Papanikolov  1:15:32

or something? Yeah, okay. Okay.


Rachel Saunders  1:15:36

Thank you so much. Thank you. Let me just say



Rachel Saunders, ceramics, Greece retreat, wellness retreat, spiritual retreat, An Ethereal Reset, human design, projectors, small business owner, entrepreneurship, career change, job pivot, flow state, show up authentically, artist residency, burnout