Weaving Spirituality and Storytelling with Amanda Norgaard
I’m joined by Amanda Norgaard, writer, and the Creative Director and Founder of ILLUMINATION. Amanda is one of those people that you can get juicy and real with, and this conversation is no exception. We dive right into Kundalini Yoga, relationships, storytelling, and poetry.
In her work, Amanda weaves the worlds of art, culture and spirituality together in what she describes as a creative moshpit. She believes that there are certain books, art, and practices that are having “a rewind or resurface”. This means that now is the time for practical dreamers because now is the time we need new leaders and new ways of creating art.
Amanda highlights that in order to receive the gift of being conscious, be anchored to our humanity and access greater parts of our spirit, we have to be willing to do some digging. We must ask ourselves what structures and psyches we are delegating our attention to because our power lies in feeling doubt, fear, joy, pain and the challenge of them all existing.
We discuss how to choose your own narrative and how to refine your mental filter. Our conversation covers the unconscious as it moves through everything, tapping into our unlimited creative potential and questioning the status quo.
- What is Applied Community and how does it look in micro and macro scales?
- How mantras work in the body and subconscious mind to evoke feelings from a conscious place
- Language, and the choice of words, and how we can shift them to alter our consciousness
- How dreams can therapeutically be the art of the unconscious
- Interpreting shifts coming in astrology, from a collective standpoint
- Parallel universes and timeline jumping
- Follow Amanda on Instagram: @amandanorgaard_
- Work with Amanda: amandanorgaard.com
- Learn more about The Muses: amandanorgaard.com/the-muses
- Learn more about The Practice: amandanorgaard.com/the-practice
- Learn more about The Vacation: amandanorgaard.com/the-vacation
- Amanda’s writing: amandanorgaard.substack.com
- Follow me on Instagram: @tonyapapanikolove
- Follow Rainbo on Instagram: @rainbomushrooms
- Shop Rainbo: rainbo.com
Tonya Papanikolov 00:00
Tonya Papanikolov 00:06
Thank you for being here. We were just, we were just chatting for 30 minutes. And I feel like I need to stop doing this. I was just chatting with Lisa the other day and we chatted for like an hour. I was like, Why? Why didn't we record that? But thank you. Thank you for being here. I'm thrilled to be connecting with you.
Amanda Norgaard 00:27
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. And I can't believe that this is actually the first time we connect like this. Like, it doesn't make any sense. We've been connecting in parallel universes.
Tonya Papanikolov 00:37
I guess. I have no doubt. Yeah, I have. So yeah, I would love to kind of hear how you're how you're choosing to define yourself these days. Which is always you know, I think women are slightly indefinable. But will you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Amanda Norgaard 00:57
I love that, like, how do you choose to define yourself these things, I love that. For awhile, I try to be like, I'm a human being, trying out creative expressions. And people were like, what, that's not the title, but what the hell. And even just now I did like an interview in a Danish magazine. And they called me like a spiritual entrepreneur, which I thought was so yucky. And, and then I talked to my partner, and I was like, I get that they can't really like title me as like a mover and a shaker, a lover and a creator. So, so I get it, I get that. But I would define myself as of as of recent, and as of now as a writer, and a creative director and founder of illumination, which is my creative house of everything that I find interesting. From online courses, to practices to retreats, to tours. Yeah, I think I think that's this. I can go,
Tonya Papanikolov 02:01
No, I love it. You're a beautiful poet. You're your words, I just want to like drink them in. And I love I love all that you do with elimination. It is it's it's like, yeah, an expression of art and so much so so so much. So I usually I like to start, I like to start episodes, just kind of sharing something we're grateful for today. Getting into our hearts a little bit. So what Yeah, what do you what are you grateful for at this moment.
Amanda Norgaard 02:40
So much as a recent, not so recent, but I have such a connection to just this internal spaciousness. Whereas everything that unfolds in that space I am just so grateful for. But to be more pragmatic, I'm very grateful for the young woman who reached out to me a week ago and asked if she could be my editor. And and yeah, I'm so grateful for my community for all this. Yeah. Amazing. Love and inspiration circulating. And yeah. Which has also brought me to you and this fun. Yes. So yeah, very grateful for that.
Tonya Papanikolov 03:24
Yeah, we did first connect online. Yeah, I mean, in that vein, too, I think. I think there's that's it's really nice to hear that I think there's a lot of it's the online space can be of course, like anything and everything just will always have its like polarities. And it is this while it is also this. And it's it's really been such an incredible way to connect. And so it's nice to bring it back to that like meeting friends. I have best friends from around the world. Because of Instagram, like Yeah. Wow.
Amanda Norgaard 04:01
It's amazing. I love the internet. I always have I'm such an Aquarius. I've always had like, online friends since I was a teenager. I think it's such a creative way of expressing and connecting and Yeah, exactly. I mean, I wouldn't I wouldn't have a company or a business if it wasn't for the, for the internet. And I agree Of course, like it must be counterbalanced with incredible, an incredible amount of heart and soul and knowing what is real and solid roots and connection to the body. All of that as we live on a polarity planet, but from that space, like there's so much beauty that can grow. And I just see the internet as a creative hub, but I also really get the human sovereignty like that's not delegate our creative or human sovereignty to AI or live chat programs, right? But we can I like recently I've really been thinking, pondering because there's so much talk about community. But I'm more interested in applied community, not just using the word community as a buzzword, but what does applied community actually look like in micro and macro scales, right. And on the Muses, which is my online course, like knowing that the women are becoming each other's friends and like business partners, and introducing each other to part like partners and fun things and mean that just to me, it's like, the most beautiful thing, human connection is the most important connection we can have. And so I think that's, that's like the new step in in the era of the Internet and a lot of online communities, also implying the community and that doesn't mean that we have to, you know, everyone has to, like, get your job, or you give someone a job, but it can be like, it can be a note, I really appreciate what you're doing. Or, like, just, you know, it's prescence. And it's Yeah, thoughtfulness as well. Like all these things. Yeah. What makes us human, right?
Tonya Papanikolov 06:09
I love I love the I love I love applied community. That's, it's such a beautiful term. And it's, I think it goes like, you're, you're kind of taking it one step further, because of course, within like, an Instagram page, like, whatever, we follow each other. Yeah, it's really just kind of like this one on one interaction. And so to bring that outside of, of that virtual space into the reality of like, even if it's a smaller space of zoom, or a retreat, or an event and like to have that, that cross pollination is just so so special, and people are so we've been so hungry for it.
Amanda Norgaard 06:48
Yeah, exactly. That's the thing. Like, I mean, we're hungry for connection. And, you know, that's the, that's the, I believe the shadow side of technology is that we can be, you know, in hyper communication with one another, you know, we're just like, one DM away, we can answer instantly, yada, yada, yada. But what we really need is, if connection is human connection, and, and that's the, yeah, that's the solve. That's the medicine and that can happen online. But it can, of course, that should also happen in person, but I've always had this. Like, I never and I never got, if you see something beautiful that someone created, or you pass a beautiful human being on the street, or something moved you, why wouldn't you tell that person that they moved you? Uh, why wouldn't you share that, right? It's just like, That, to me is like the most beautiful thing and I love, I just love sharing, beautiful art and beauty and craft. So even a sentence right? Or presence, like your presence really moved me. Right? It's like, and in return, your life becomes so much more enriched to because you are engaged, engaging consciously an activity, and then live like a beautiful flower religious unfolds, right? This idea that we have to sit back and lean back and then someone just like serving us a beautiful, rich life full of presence and connection and relationships. Like, did you show up for it? Did you plant the seeds that you order them? Right? Did you read? Responsibility is something that I find incredibly beautiful and important and important components to a rich life.
Tonya Papanikolov 08:40
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think about like, fertile soil in inside, right? That kind of like that. That's a really good segue for this, this conversation I wanted to have with you, which I, I feel like you you will you have you thought about I know you've thought about because we both I know you practice Kundalini. And in that lineage and practice, there's a there's kind of this, this through line of mantra and like, the spoken word. And I think that is in part, whether that's an internal dialogue or an external dialogue, we are using words to create and craft a reality. And I think the amount of words we are used to using is probably quite limited. In our day to day, we probably have an arsenal of like, I don't know, 100 200 words that we tell the same stories with, we ask the same questions with that we just, you know, we often can be repetitive in that. And so I want to just like yeah, hear your take on, on language on the choice of those words, and how we and start to shift that because I think we're, we're all probably not so far away from a different reality via V, the words we are choosing to use, maybe part of that story that we're, you know, continually holding on to or telling, whatever they may be. That may be. And as we know, from this, you know, very rich and deep practice that we have both engaged with very deeply. A word, a seed has the ability to completely alter our consciousness to change, like, the physiology and like, just, you know, a transference of like this current to that current. And so how do you engage with that? And did you? Did you come from a place of like, Yeah, how did that really change and shift for you over the course of, you know, the past, whatever? 10 years are kind of moving into this area of your life or becoming a writer?
Amanda Norgaard 11:00
Oh, such a rich question. Okay, where, where should I begin? So, English is my second language and Danish is obviously my friend, maybe not obvious, but people don't know. I'm from Denmark, I'm Danish. So and, and I've really intuitively learned about the frequency of vibration of languages and how different they can DJ our inner landscape when I moved to New York, and was kind of just like, forced to develop and outgrow and evolve my school English, right. And I moved to the States when I was 17. And the first year and a half, I felt amputated. Because I couldn't express humor I couldn't, I couldn't really felt like I couldn't express that's a big part of my soul and personality, humor being a big part of it. I've always been a word person, I taught myself how to read when I was four. And I always knew I wanted to be a writer, I've always loved stories, I've always just loved words, because they really moved me. And, and so when I moved to the States, really like, was kind of an identity crisis, because as we spoke about human connection, right, all of a sudden had to find another way of connecting with human beings, whereas I really was so used to connecting through beautiful words. But then English opened itself up like a beautiful flower to me and revealed a whole nother way of, of communicating Danish is a pretty poor language. I mean, I at least we've lost a lot of the beautiful seeds because everything has been watered down. Whereas I started reading. I chose only to read in English, like, the minute I moved there, and, and even just reading it, like I was so inspired, and my inner garden really started to sprout and they would read Rambo and Blake and all these like really beautiful poets that
Tonya Papanikolov 13:17
decided you have to look words up or
Amanda Norgaard 13:21
some I did, but then I kind of just like gotten rid of it got got it. And so it was pretty funny because then all of a sudden, my vocabulary would now be like, like Danish teenager mixed with a little bit of Blake delight. Eternal delight, and all my poetry from from that period is like all very transcendental, Mystic or cold, augment, like. But, but I really recognize, like, it's like I have a different personality almost. And in English, I do almost have like a different personality. So without this being through a lineage, I had such tangible experiences with the vibration of the words, and coming from 15 years of anxiety and depression and post traumatic traumatic stress disorder. A lot of my poetry would be very dark, and it would be very much about how Yeah, darkness was really all consuming and that became a very repetitive pattern. And I even like in some of my older notebooks, I read them through the other day, sometimes I bring all my old notebooks out just to see like, what was moving, and I'm, and I'm trying like, I'm really odd carving my way into some hidden truth that is that I am actually in fact, repeating a pattern by repeating the darkness and using the words of it right Um, but I've been practicing yoga since I was 13. But I had a hardest time really finding the greater metaphysical transmission, because I just a lot of it was very westernized, watered down, and I just wanted to get to the core. Like I wanted some truth, I wanted something that could move me and like, like, it's great that I'm doing this posture, but, but why am I doing it? And not just from the physiological level? But like, how is this connecting to my psyche and my mentality. And so in 2012, I stumbled upon Kundalini Yoga, but was very hard for me to find my way in, and I still can't really explain it in a better way than then the initiated, gets the little breadcrumbs that you need to octopath Right, you will, like get the key when you're ready for it. But I had a lot of mantras playing. And I really realized, like, I think, Wait, I've been listening to this mantra for three hours. And I'm feeling so different. And of course, also knowing we put on a sad song, and that moves you. And that kind of like, transports you into a sad memory. And it's beautiful that we can work and evoke the feelings like that. But doing it from a conscious place is is a different way of engaging with it. But the mantras, so it was so etheric Eric, and I couldn't really find any. I mean, this is still back. I mean, it's not the early days of the internet, but it wasn't like the, the teachings and the juice wasn't really available in the way that it is now. So you really had to dig through, and be open to receive and you know, you know, start talking to some seemingly random person in the grocery store, and then all of a sudden, they know all these things about the study of science, right? And be open. So when I then you know, years later landed on teacher straining, Mat, sheepskin. And we started learning about sound. My mind was so blown because I and yet then again, I was like, Oh, I, I knew this already. So sound is, as you know, so etheric. And we're so used to talking from this voice, right, this voice, that conversing voice, but through chanting the mantras I had, I had so many awakenings of my soul through sound, because imagine, exactly imagine you're relating to yourself and the world and the world through this one specific frequency, which could also be I'm not good enough. I'm not supposed to be here, I need like, I'm a nice girl, like yada, yada, yada, whatever. And then all of a sudden, through the mantra, you take yourself down into the deeper depths of your being, and from that sound reveals the power that you didn't even know lift inside of you. And that is now experienced through you, as you through the sound. And I had many experiences like that, even that feeling of is this like, if this sound current living inside of me, this depth. And, I mean, a lot of it I will unpack for the rest of my life. But looking at it from a more psychological pattern, right or lens is what are the things that we continue to tell ourselves and, and how I see it is that, you know, human consciousness works in many ways at all times, and in many different areas and chambers of our being, so we can engage with chanting and mantras, and we can still also take a therapeutic approach to it like what are these one thing is what's happening inside of me to add a vibrational level. But as this is happening, do I now have access to a soundtrack and in a soundtrack that I wasn't completely aware of actually repeated itself inside of I'm not good enough, whatever, right? And that's just so beautiful to continue to unfold that. I love mantra so much and it is, as with anything, it's something that of course you can use, I really call it you can DJ your mind. That's like maybe a simplified way but you like when I had to explain it to to people who are first time offenders it's like, imagine instead of now saying, I'm not good enough. I had a bad A life is shit. Now you're pushing some upper limit buttons that are just sending different signals. So your brain is firing in a different way. And that corresponds to your body as well. And we know that water holds the frequency and we are made out of what like 70 80%. Water
Tonya Papanikolov 20:18
99% molecular water to like. Okay,
Amanda Norgaard 20:23
yeah. So, so what holds the frequency? Exactly? Right. So, and I mean, you know, this has so many amazing studies being made on sound. Now, and and what it does and how we can really heal and expand through sound. And, and I think one of the things that is always a thing, a great invitation for us, we talked about coming off the dopamine rush is that you might find yourself the first 1011 minutes of chanting a mantra and you're like, What the hell, nothing's moving. Whatever, like this is not working. I want a quick fix. And then you surrender because what is time and space. And then the more you surrender, the more you can grow and presence and unconsciousness and inattention even and something so beautiful, which is actually beyond words begins to move inside of you.
Tonya Papanikolov 21:19
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's,
Amanda Norgaard 21:25
and as you said, like, the seat where it's right, it's the and we have these 30 There are these seed sounds, which just one sound holes, the key to the entire universe. beyond comprehension, and big beyond our modern vocabulary, it's an experience I, when I was I was working with with plant medicine in the jungle in Peru, like six years ago. And they also worked with Vedic Astrology. So we were also chanting mantras, and I so desperately wanted, there was this one mantra, Putnam, and I really saw just I really resonated with it. And when I What does it mean? Tell me what it means. And the maestro is like, it means it means perfect, but perfect, that everything in creation is perfect. And then I look through my old notebooks then and I'm like, I'm like, it's so it was so interesting, seeing how I tried to like Target it, like everything is perfect, just as it is, like now still from a very intellectual point of view, rather than surrendering the mind. And just having this experience of that, of the vibration of the mantra moving through you. And that's really the thing where, even though coming from a language such as Danish, which I, which I find confined, but the even the vibration of Danish is very flat. And that's why I always prefer speaking and writing in English, because it's so much more creative for me. And I think, actually thought of this today is so much fun, you should ask this question, I thought, because for a long time, I was like, Oh, I can't write in English, because it's my second language. And there's going to be all these grammatical errors and whatnot. And today, I realized, Oh, I'm actually it's almost like, I'm creating my own language, because I have no rules. So I can, like, I'm not confined and there are certain things and certain words that I won't know. So I just, like make up my own word and roll with it. And it actually makes my writing I think so alive. Yeah. So yeah, it's, yeah, it's beautiful.
Tonya Papanikolov 23:53
It's beautiful. i It's interesting how the mantras can work in the body and on on the subconscious mind. And then, on the one hand, it's like they're working, they're working without even really needing to understand the, the meaning, if somebody doesn't, you know, just doesn't have the translation, they will still work. But it doesn't mean that you can, like, you know, bypass needing to actually look at the issue or deal with it or be really honest with it or not under, you know, maybe not even understand it, and if I've, if I've ever if I ever tried to do that, it's it's come up and needed to be addressed, you know, so it's, it's, it's an interesting it's such an interesting practice, but I did, I did stop dreaming like, oh, yeah, I mean, when when I found Kundalini Yoga in 2016, and I like completely changed my life. Through the subconscious and my dreams, were probably one of the most radical shifts in going from just an anxious dream, a bad dream. Like, you know, not every night, but like things that would come up like that were just completely unresolved going. And then and then it would shift into I mean, all sorts of like, either no dreaming or prophetic dreams of visitation, like, just beautiful, beautiful inner shift on that front to
Amanda Norgaard 25:37
amazing. Wow. Yeah. And it's, it's so it's so true as you say that. And that's, that's also I think what I meant, because we think, but sometimes there is this idea that, okay, great, I can just chant the mantras, and then I don't have to deal with it in real time. But it can also be like, for example, I, I tended more mantra everyday for like three years. And my mantra was really, it's, it's the root of the mantra move means root, right? And it's like, the first the first mantra, the first sentence is, is, is Eckankar, which means all creation, that all is one creation. And moola mantra is set to by connecting you, connecting you with your own creative powers, it can rewrite your karma and lead you into your highest creative destiny. And that sounds very beautiful and poetic. But what does that look like? Well, how looks like Get your ass to therapy? Right? And I really think for example, like, I chanted more mantra every day for three years, and then after three years, I was like, I'm ready to go to therapy now. And right, a part of me was like, great if this can just work for me, and you know, all my, my issues, or my shadows will just like magically disappear, but it's also so beautiful, and so therapeutic to look to your dreams. I'm my, my partner is a psychotherapist and they work so much with the dream world. And it's, it's, it's always when we when we talk about our dreams, it always like turns into like, the most beautiful therapeutic session because they hold like, yeah, the dreams like our you know, the the art of the unconscious, and it's part of us and just think of that wild creativity that lives inside of us, you know? Wow. Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah, yeah.
Tonya Papanikolov 27:59
Oh my gosh, I would love to speak to Cal about one of my most recent dreams. Like,
Amanda Norgaard 28:04
he would love it.
Tonya Papanikolov 28:06
Yeah, that I that will be a separate conversation. It's so so funny. I'm Simon and I are getting married this summer. And thank you, and it's so exciting, but it's just it's actually brought up like fascinating, like, hilarious, fascinating dreams. Where I'm like, Oh, this is like, this is juicy. Yeah, presented with all of my ex boyfriends. And Simon didn't exist and I was in the stream like, I will not marry you. Like who am I? Like I have this ring on my finger. Who am I marrying? And Simon was like nowhere to be found. I didn't know he existed and I was just like, gosh, like wow, that is a fascinating
Amanda Norgaard 28:50
I love that. I love that and especially right going through such an transition such as marriage right or a birth or and like any like major thing like that is so going to put like a greater pressure on our unconscious and like all these wild things are just going to come up. That's so oh my god, I'm so excited. What else is gonna like unfold from that? Yeah, yeah.
Tonya Papanikolov 29:17
Wow. Oh, no, it's it's it's so interesting. was speaking of more mantra. I wonder if you could when you said that, I was like, Wow, it sounds like it sounds like with you know, Pluto's transition. It's kind of like, the universe has been chanting more mantra. And we're like, moving towards a new getting on like a different destiny for the future. I know you're into astrology, but yeah, what do you like? What do you How are you interpreting? What's What, like what shift is coming? I know it can be kind of individual for every person and where this falls in their house, but I guess from a collective standpoint? How are you interpreting it?
Amanda Norgaard 30:07
So I, speaking of gratitude, I feel so grateful to have not only found Kundalini Yoga, but like have access to so many incredible healing technologies and metaphysical technologies. I was always a young mystic. I was always so fascinated and interested in astrology and the mystic and Aleister Crowley and like, all of the things, but but then back then, I mean, I was a teenager like you, like, I could like go to the library, and they would give me like a shitty astrology book, right? And think like, oh, cool, cool. So just want to take a moment of gratitude to be in the Age of Aquarius, where we have, such as access just to to all of this. And well, the thing is, again, we operate on multiple levels, I think I've been feeling this change happening. However, very subtle, since 2012, without even knowing that 2012 was like a big deal. But I see in 2012, I am, I had some pretty beautiful awakenings of my of my spirit. And meanwhile, still very much living in 3d New York modeling, like all sorts of things. It's also when I stumbled upon Kundalini yoga. And so in the time and age that we are in today is something that I've been feeling in my cellular intelligence for so many years. And just know that how not, I wouldn't say lucky, but it's just such a great gift to to be conscious. And when I say conscious, it's not like conscious living, but like to have access to your attention, where does your attention go have access to these great parts of your spirit and that it's all available to everyone? But you know, we do get it, we have to do some some digging. And I think that's one of the big things that's going to happen is that we're going to be faced with where we into what structures and to what psyches are we delegating our attention and our consciousness, which is essentially our power. And we're going to realize that we're only living by around 5% of our human potential, and there is 95 untapped potential, which I think correlates to the subconscious mind. So the unconscious because we spend what 5% living from our conscious mind and 95% in our current unconscious state, and sometimes the subconscious and unconscious gets a bit of a bad rep. And it's true that this is where our patterns and limiting beliefs lies. But it's also true that this is where our greatest potential lies. So, as the Native Americans always said, Wherever there is a poisonous plant, the antidote will live in the same area. And the same goes for us with self healing through creative beings. I had a big breakthrough around around the unconscious because I did I was a little bit school believing that the unconscious is something to not to be feared, but it's something that needs to be cleansed and needs to be illuminated. And speaking with my partner, who is who's a young Indian psychotherapist, I feel like I'm like I'm like, I'm like 30% psychotherapist, but I'm getting so much interesting information and I just love I mean, I am Aquarius sun sign. I'm such a pattern maker I like just love to see how everything is connected. And what Yun spoke about is and he was also young studied Kundalini yoga, and he studied Yeah, you wrote Jung Jung wrote a whole book on Kundalini yoga and he studied speaking of sound the mandala of sound on the psyche, it's very interesting. Wow getting chills. Yeah. So, we spoke on the off the unconscious and this is obviously Jung's perspective. But the unconscious is what moves through everything. It is the unlimited creative potential. It is. And I was like, that sounds exactly like the Akashic records. It sounds exactly what we would call God, what we would call the universe and I was like, I talked to my therapist who's also working with the unconscious and I was like it's the unconscious in fact, just Scott. What we have tried to Chris personify as God, this this silent Raider creative force on the invisible web of intelligence that moves through everything. And then of course, we're human beings. So we want to, we want to put a form of form at a concept. And God has many expressions, right? Or some call it I call it the universe, but I also just resonate with this innate intelligence. It's, it's something so intangible. And I think with now with Saturn moving into Pisces, we're going to see a lot of that Pisces is poetry, it is the unconscious, it is faith and spirituality and religion. I think there's going to be a lot of big shifts happening around here. And then with Pluto and Aquarius, I think this is a beautiful dance of where have we delegated our powers to institutions. But then, in that almost in that trauma of delegating power to religious organizations or institutions have we then separated ourselves from the Divine innate intelligence, you know, the great creative unconscious, and I think there's going to be beautiful couples consultation and consultation in that emerge is what I'm feeling. And just what I'm also just seeing is that on a more practical level is like, you know, questioning the status quo. Like, why are we doing this? Like, why are we working this way? Why, why is this happening? Even seeing Marianne Williamson now running for president again, right? Why can we not run a country in love? Why should that be more naive and less efficient? And running it on forests and power? Yeah. So and I think we'll what we will see is, I mean, I don't know how the listeners feel about this, but but parallel universes Timeline Jumping. I mean, even see the movie that won an Oscar was about parallel universes. Right. I think that's kind of interesting that that is hitting the mainstream media as well. But I think in what we're what I wanted to get to with that was that there's certain I think there's certain books, certain art, certain spiritual practices that have been surfacing way back then. And now we'll have like a rewind or resurface, like the book Thinking Grow Rich, for example. Do you know about that? Yeah. Yes. So Lisa, and I started a book club on that in the beginning of January, and it's the second time she reads it. It's the first time I read it. And I just thought, when I read it, like, this is this is written during the Depression. And now seeing that how that really, almost is like a parallel situation to inflation. Or what that like, what he, he's like, this is the time for practical dreamers, where we will need new leaders new ways of creating art businesses politician, I'm like, yeah, like that's like exactly what we need right now. And that was written in 1937.
Tonya Papanikolov 38:29
Yeah, wow. Knight, that book was written in 1937. Whoa, I didn't know that. Wow. Wow. That's incredible.
Amanda Norgaard 38:39
Yeah, it's awesome. It's awesome. And it's like, especially to really like not fall into the trap of curated media coverage, I'd say to choose your narrative is one thing, and that's something that we've gone to. And of course, we don't know how to do that quite yet. Because this sort of media is still so new. So we're like developing in consciousness for sure. But really learning how to filter your information is going to be a pivotal asset in this time. Yeah. What do you want to you don't have to take because before you had like, for what for TV channels, and then a couple of newspapers and now there are 1000s and hundreds and yeah, so really to choose seven times sovereign and creative direction of your attention and consciousness and really refine your internal filter, I think are going to be so important for mental health as well.
Tonya Papanikolov 39:40
I have to pause as I have to go to the bathroom so badly. Okay, I'm gonna pause this and we'll cut it so just hold that thought. Yeah. Sorry for the interruption. Where were we? You were
Amanda Norgaard 39:57
Pluto and Aquarius and Aquarius. Yes. and choosing and fill your choosing your creative direction of your mind and your attention and filtering the information.
Tonya Papanikolov 40:09
Yes, yeah. And yeah, right. The filtering of information, I think is, is so critical because well, and it's so interesting, right? Because you were saying how as a teenager, you were you were interested in the mystic and, and that that really resonates. I used to have like, really elaborate dreams. And like, I really believed that I came from space when I was little. Like, I was like, my imaginary friends were those types of creatures and like, I have dreams of like interstellar travel, like I can I see the landscape. And, but it's interesting hearing you say that, like, I kind of lost that as a teenager and reconnected to it in my 20s. But, like, just to even think that this information was so secret, so held within tight groups, like priests, clergy, like really patriarchal forms of control around these sacred texts and mystical practices. And to have that, and you know, I'm sure there's like, apparently, like, just miles and miles and the Vatican of old texts and books, like, could you even imagine being able to have access to those. But it's interesting now to have access to this at this in this day and age, like we're so incredibly lucky. And then now like the additional interesting pieces, that like flow of how much information there is, which, you know, good a jogger, I was, I loved the her terminology of like info dementia, because that is really like, what, what it is it? It is, it is like too much for the brain to process. And it leaves us feeling unless we can really cultivate this ability to filter, it leaves us kind of at a loss for like, what is truth? What is where do I find the truth, what's actually happening, and, and I feel that Pluto is going to be dismantling more systems. And I was, I was reading about how, like, if you're not in the right place, in the right career in the right spot that Pluto will take you there, they will just kind of like, boot you read right to where you need to be. So I it's really interesting. Yeah, and coming back to the social media piece, I think, or Twitter. It's Simon my partner like he really he's a Twitter person. And it's mostly for for like, feeds and like, dif like really just kind of different type of information that you would that you and then you would find on Instagram. But um, yeah, I think I think that though, as as much information as there is, it takes a little bit of time to, well, a maybe learn some discernment, but then also find some sources that are that you believe are a value that are sharing. Yeah,
Amanda Norgaard 43:38
yeah, I agree. And I think this is where connection to our somatic intelligence is crucial. Because you will feel that in the body, and everyone will of course, feel that differently. But how does it feel in the body? Problem is a lot of people are not connected to their body, so they don't even know what it feels like to read a message from the body. And then we might and you know, rightfully so walk around thinking oh, and the only way for me to feel my body if it's like you know, hurting or if it's like a great physical epiphany running through my body, but the body speaks in, you know, in subtle voices as well. Sometimes it's not subtle, but I think that's one of the that's the like, like such an important part of, of that discernment as you're talking about exactly. Because body mind spirit all connected. So if we're not connected to the vessel to the computer or to the to the container, we're going to, we can miss out on a lot of information. I think that's the crucial part especially and I really feel for people also just talking to the older generation, like, where do I start? And even you know, sometimes not even knowing you can you know that you have the power to turn the TV off. You don't have to take in every single news can be kind of revolutionary for some. I know for my mom, for example, they always have the news going on. And I'm just like, witnessing the end. Bless you, Mom, I love you so much. But witnessing the, the rollercoaster of emotions just going through her, like, whether it's a good news, it's like spike a surge of energy or it's a bad one, you know, it's like, like, what? Like, I'm like, what? Why are you? Yeah, why are you engaging with this? Right? And, and it's just a constant, but it's such a generational thing. It's like, that's like, what you do? Yeah. And, and, and so when we talk about when I talk to my mom about it, she doesn't even know that she has the power to discern and filter. Right. And I think this is then here, why the body is such an important place to start is then okay, if all of that is a little bit too, like up in the air, like, what the fuck is that, like discernment and inner filtration, like, how does it feel in my body? How am I feeling when I'm watching this right now. And here, I'm not talking about, of course, sitting with it. And this, like, uncomfortable sensation in the body of something terrible happening, like, it's not just like, turn it off. But we can. You can feel it in the body, and you have the power and the autonomy to to to to listen to your body. So it's not, I'm like, as we spoke about, I'm a firm believer, I don't use meditation or my practice to eradicate uncomfortable emotions or truths about what is also happening in the world. But rather, I use it to, to, to come into a greater autonomy, and also being able to sit with the uncomfortable emotion without being completely dissolved by it and paralyzed by it. Because from that state, we're not going to be very creative, from a fear paralyze state, we're not going to be very creative, we're not going to come up. And it's, you know, it's out that can sound so heroic come up with something, but I think I believe we all carry beautiful creative medicine with them. So I think really, that connection to the somatic responses are so crucial as a way of coming home.
Tonya Papanikolov 47:35
Yeah, yeah, it's so beautiful. And so, so true. So I think that's so practical for people to hear and remember, and we're so used to, yeah, I think just the wanting the reversal of a symptom of the expression of the body speaking to us, instead of really taking the time to slow down and say, like, Hey, what are you saying, like, Where's this coming from? And those, there's, there is a shift in that, but I think we all have work to do, because it's so much of our programming around, like, just take the aspirin, Advil, you know, and, and, and it comes from such a good place of just want wanting to be okay, as fast as possible.
Amanda Norgaard 48:20
Yeah, and even when we look at the Wellness world, or the spiritual world, like, the polarity to that is I'm gonna escape to another galaxy, and then kind of like,
Tonya Papanikolov 48:32
Amanda Norgaard 48:35
Forsake like, earthly life, right. And then like, that becomes a way of suppressing a pain, probably living in the body. Right. And I think that that is such an important part of this time as well is to integrate heaven and earth and, and, and not. And again, everyone has a different experience. It's been it's been an important part for me has been, I saw like, speaking of always being interested in the mistake and the your cold. And I do come from a lineage of very psychic people. It's all actually it's all with man, of course, who my grandfather is in like a secret. Sorry, or fuck that up. And he's,
Tonya Papanikolov 49:29
I know about like, have you gotten details?
Amanda Norgaard 49:33
No, of course not. Like I've been asking him. I'm like, what do you do? And he's like, we sing songs for our brothers. I'm like, I doubt that you just sing along for your brothers and eat some food right? But he's really he told my mom when I die, you have to burn all the papers. He's the high priest in within that order. And my my uncle and us a energy healer in the Rosicrucian Order, which is a lineage of the temple knights. And they have a never big temple in Sacramento, he moved from a tiny Danish Island to Sacramento in 1920, to become a peach farmer. And then he stumbled upon the order and he became the leading energy healer. And when he moved back to the tiny island to take care of my grandfather's mother, who was a single mom by then, and this is like, in what like the 90, like that's in the 60s there will always be stories that you had this bench outside the little house, and he brought back avocados and oranges from California, which was very obviously exotic back then. But he would sit outside this bench and, and he'll, but it was all the men and I've always I mean, when I lived in New York, I went to them to the to the National Library of dictionary of people because they have records of every human being who has ever entered states. And I found the ship that he arrived with, I found him in the records.
But yeah, my grandfather
Amanda Norgaard 51:17
won't tell me anything. So but there's like there's a memorial and for my uncle at the Sacramento, so I was even thinking of going on at one point, to kind of retrieve some of my lineage. But all of this to say is that the access to the more etheric realms has never been the journey for me, for me, it has been to integrate that in the earthly life and to find as much beauty and connection here. And I think that, to me, is really what just feels so wholesome, because I would, and I'm, I'm sure you can relate, I would always have this longing towards everywhere else, but Earth, or at least where I was right here right now. And I thought that human life was so dull, and so confined, and just shitty. Which definitely, again, grew up having a very, very shitty, like, upbringing, with a lot of, yeah, just a lot of abuse and a lot of hurt and a lot of pain from a very early age. So I get it, like from both this. And that's, I mean, that's also a thing is, if you have if you suffer a lot of trauma, you, it can really reflect into a spiritual awakening. Yeah, because that pressure, it puts a pressure on the psyche. And you even see that I wrote an essay in third grade, which was about the bubble of innocence bursting on me. And I think that's such a beautiful image is that like, that pressure will like break you open to the pain and the hurt, but also to all the other things. So I think that's the thing in spiritual communities, why an integrated approach and preferably, any form of therapy and psychological reinforcement is so important to really, you know, connect the root to the crown, the body to the mind, to the Spirit. And to, to really wake up, I wake up every day, and Denmark is pretty rainy right now. It's not like the most interesting climate. And I just see beauty. And I see and I see, and I feel the pain as well. But it's like, this is a magical, magical place. And, and then knowing the creative powers we have as gardeners that we can feed the seeds of the flowers that we wish to grow and flourish.
Tonya Papanikolov 53:59
Yeah. Yeah, I can really relate to that. So much. I think it's I was thinking about this recently, how like, you know, you and I were sharing some of our some some stuff that we were working through over the past few months and this fear that was coming up for me. And I kind of started to relate to that differently where i i Yeah, I I relate in the sense that like that opera, connection has never, that's been so present in my life. And lower chakra like this lower sphere is what has been a little bit more challenging. And then when you think about fear, it's like that, like we need we need to be tethered to this 3d existence. We need to be tethered to our bodies. Fear is not is not bad. It's human. And like yeah, and That is so it's, I just find it, it's, it's nice. I think there's like in spiritual communities just often like a lot of jargon a lot of like this really ethereal talking and speaking and it's wonderful. And I talk that language and I get it, but it's also like, it's also just nice to be real to the fact that we're so human. And, and, and that's this is part of our experience, too. It's never, we can never eradicate our humaneness. And in doing so we will, you know, float off to those other dimensions and like it's to anchor to be anchored to earth and to be anchored to our humanity is to feel doubt and fear and joy and the pain and the challenge and all of it. Yeah, and it is
Amanda Norgaard 55:47
so vulnerable. Right? Like the human experience is so vulnerable, because in that there's that sensitivity and receptive receptiveness. So exactly as you say, the pain, the joy, the hurt, the paper cut, we can feel it, all right. But that's also the thing, sometimes you can't raise the heart. So when I was this talk about, you know, this is a heart opener, the heart is not going to do what you tell it to do. But why there can be a lot of and the hardest not, I think the what the mind why the mind can be feel, why the mind can feel a lot of resistance to going into those places is exactly that. Because we come from an upbringing and like a society where everything that is considered dark, right? fear, pain, anger, we should avoid that just actually wrote a newsletter about it, that for me, like every time I have walked through the greatest fears is where I have grown the most. And where I have felt the most free. Someone told me like, Oh, I'm never I'm never angry. And I was like, I really hope you are. And if not, you know that we can also look, this was also a great friend of mine who has a hard time understanding her boundaries, and anger and boundaries go hand in hand, right. And so every emotion you've probably heard this like, is energy in motion. And emotions are vital, vital messengers of what is going on inside of our body, how we're feeling. So if we suppress them, or if we exactly transcend them, is like a spiritual term. Well, I think what can be meant here is that we no longer identify with our emotions, which is obviously also a path, right? But, but there can be something so alluring to just be like, Oh, I transcended my emotions, I no longer feel angry, I no longer feel pain, when it's like the will transcending your emotions, it's not not feeling them, it is actually feeling them. And, and, and that's vital that I mean, that is what makes us human being but just leaving back to the human experience is very vulnerable, takes a lot of courage to incarnate. And it's my own experience that the more coming from a place of really like identifying with the pain and with the darkness, I had then kind of flipped polarity and went on to love and light and like, really spoke the language of the ethers. And then now finding myself in a place of, of, of seeking a greater balance and really just loving it all and welcoming it all but being okay, and loving my vulnerability, like the vulnerable experience of being a human being. And that doesn't mean that I'm, I'm sitting around being I'm not necessarily vulnerable all the time because I think it's also for me, I've had to learn who, who just serves my vulnerability right against speaking of boundaries, and and just who are you going to let Who are you letting into these areas, but again, there can just be and I feel like I'm embracing the world from a more as you said, more anchored place and I think that's where we circling back to what we started talking about is where you will experience human connection and daring to be real and to be raw and to be authentic. And again, authentic is such a buzzword authentic doesn't look like you're some like you know, perfect avatar who's like always cool like always boss like never that authentic is essentially like having room accepting all Hearts of you and being okay with every part of you that's authentic. And again, talking about sound and vibration. Well, if that is the vibration you walk into that is also the feedback, the biofeedback, that you will be circulating through the room. And that allows for greater human connection.
Tonya Papanikolov 1:00:21
Yeah. And like to that authenticity to, for women is such a, like, it's such an unbecoming and becoming an essential such a work in progress, at least for me, of a of, yeah, just a lot of programming. And in a real evolution, in, in, in that, and I think that's like inherent to the experience of this within, you know, this age. And where we've come from is to, is to have that experience, the transition, the evolution that like constant shedding of the last skin, and the cosmos provides such a beautiful blueprint to move through life in that way. And so does it cycle like the cycles of moons, what we're exposed to is like, Oh, my God, I get to share this again. It's so good, thank God. For every and everybody, but
Amanda Norgaard 1:01:20
yeah, and do you even notice, like how certain personal inner cycles and shedding that you're going through is reflected in the collective as well? Yeah. And how wild that is, that gives us a greater example of an understanding of the process that the collective is going through, because that same patterning lives inside of us because the individual is the collective and that's beautiful to see that mirrored. And I know you're big nature lover and nerd as well. And like just seeing how these universal truths and cycles are mirrored in the earth as well. It's all they're all they were part of the we are nature so so it's, there's no difference. And it's that, that I, that is a perspective, I really like to work with, not that I'm not sitting with the personal process I'm going through, but it helps me to not identify with it and not take it so goddamn personal. Like, why is this happening to me? I'm like, dude, winter comes every year. I mean, at least in some places.
Tonya Papanikolov 1:02:29
Yeah. You know, yeah, it's, that's such a, it's such a great reminder. And speaking of nature, I would love to hear a bit about, you know, how your, what your relationship is, with fungi with mushrooms, whether whether they be functional, I know you love rainbow, or, you know, psychedelic or anything along those lines, how have they helped you? What have they taught you?
Amanda Norgaard 1:02:55
So well, so one part of my lineage, just our, you know, the psychic, energetic, and then another part that runs very, very deep is the Vikings. So I come from like a very powerful Viking lineage. And my, my bipolar father did a lot of things in his madness, but he did plant a lot of amazing seeds as well. And, and one thing was to really remind me that I'm, I'm a warrior, and I'm off Vikings. And you would always tell all these great stories, which is so unusual, really, that you're passing on the knowledge of your lineage, especially in at least in Denmark, it's we live, we're very cut off from our innate spiritual lineage. So he would always talk about how Vikings would eat a piece of poisonous mushroom before going to war, because there had been in subtle ecstasy. And I mean, in in the northern shamanic traditions we've worked with, with mushrooms. I then found a partner who, like seven years we, we've been together for six and a half years. And when we met, he started to get really, really into mushrooms, both the psychedelic ones and the medicinal ones. And what's our beloved guy again, with the hat? Pass the mush? Yes, exactly. The father of fun. Gaspar was my partner was just obsessed with him. And so the mushrooms just returned in such a beautiful way. And we've, I've been working with with psychedelics many for years, and I actually actually, well, more intentionally for many years, but back when I was 18, I accidentally ate half a bag of psilocybin and I didn't know that I was eating meth. To cool mushrooms. And I had a very, very profound ego death like, you know, straight out of American Pie like on the floor, like not thinking that I'm real. And looking back at it, it really sparked an awakening for sure, like something that like I haven't been able to really like retrieve up until this point because I think that was the first time where I was faced with the fact that I am in this body right now in this identity threw in all these labels and right now I can, I can look at my bottle and I can say this is a bottle, but there is another state of being where this bottle is not a bottle and my name is not Amanda and I do not I you know what I mean? And obviously, that in the end, like there was there was like, no intention, there was no setting like everything was just wrong about it, it was so like the nature. But then when I started working with psychedelic mushrooms, again, I had to like renegotiate that trust. And at the same time, for example, like but then again, Lion's Mane has honestly been such a game changer for me. And I think it's again, it's something that I can think of and I can just be so profoundly grateful than nature provides this depth and level of medicine. And Lion's Mane came into my life again, because Casper was wildly obsessed with Lion's Mane that was one of the fungi that was introduced by the Philo father of fungi, as with many others, but I remember taking Lion's Mane for the first time and just like almost like an instant feeling how my neuro balance just shifted. So, and even just now like living now I moved out I'm close to nature. I can witness nature in a different way. And And again, as I said, like understanding that that web of intelligence that is fungi is I mean, probably holds the key to a lot of the problems that we're seeking solution from even if not from like, like an actual, like implanting fungi, but just looking at the web of intelligence. I've always thought about this like, huh, I mean, I know we fucked up nature pretty badly. But why don't we look to nature House speaking of applied community, how nature is x how fungi interact with one another, that is applied community? And it works. And it works for a reason because there's a greater intelligence running through it. And so, like, why don't like that's your blueprint like that's our blueprint and implementing that into politics, societal structures, workspaces, mental mental health, physical health. I mean, I mean, I, I ay, yeah, yeah.
Tonya Papanikolov 1:08:21
It's, I love I love it. I love I love that I love your experience as an 18 year old too. I think I can relate when I was around that age, too, probably not quite as much as you had. But but it's, it's cool to think that your brain like, like, totally changed at that age, like, completely, completely and those and like, you know, those effects on that, on that default mode network, basically, like turning off and turning on if other areas has long term sustained effects. And I love like talking to people that have this relationship with whatever it is like psychedelic mushrooms, adaptogenic mushrooms, and like you said, we are adaptogenic that is also our nature. Completely I love that I love that parallel so much. But like these are intelligent compounds that come into our bodies that know exactly what to do that can upgrade us upgrade our immune system and our nervous system. Like what? And it's another us and like, genetically and you know, in so many ways and that yeah, it's I love I don't know what this is quite yet other than like, just the transference of us in nature and nature in us, which is that like, life starts to become psychedelic, which is just that it's just mind altering, altering. That's like what the seed it's what the word means. And it's, I think that's reflected in the beauty you see every day, looking at your window and that's shifts in your, in your whole psyche and brain that, that have been this ultimate like reflection communion with nature of yourself. Like, it's beautiful.
Amanda Norgaard 1:10:12
And even like, this has the importance of attention and awareness, because we can take a leaf, look at it, whatever, it's a leaf, whatever. And then we can take that same leaf and we can look at it and look at it, and we can start to see the sacred geometry, the patterns in it. Same with fungi. Same with anything, but do we pay attention to it? Right, and just so as to zoom in, then to zoom in to actually zoom out and see just that. Yeah, that divine intelligence in that and I mean, I, you know, I'm sure you know, there's like, when you go to nature, and you have no phone, nothing, it really turns into a whole psychedelic trip, if you attune your attention to that, I believe there's so much DMT running through nature. And just so to get that, get that imprint without having ingested any psychedelic mushrooms whatsoever, like that's just our human nature. And I think that's also something that like that, that's a byproduct of Kundalini yoga as well, not as that, but but that practice applied, because that practice awakens more of your human potential more expansion, your psyche. So, I mean, we all know pranic high when we've been doing like, really intense, pranayama breathwork. And just that high we can get from that. And the same high we can get in nature. But again, it's coming back to the attention, like, what do we give our attention to, and again, whatever we give our attention to will grow. And that's where the DJing the mind to to attune the attention as to something that's more creative than destructive, and not that the destructive because night and day, all of that. And what do we give our attention to what do we relate to, and whatever we will relate to inside out is going to grow and magnify. And the same thing with like, mean intentional eating, like, sometimes I've had like, these almost get very psychedelic meals with my friend, when we really just like zoom in on the meal that we're eating, we're looking at it, every single thing that we're eating, we're just looking at it, we're tenting it with feeling it with taking it in, and we're like, Look at this beauty, like I mean the abundance of the earth, and eating in that by Bration. Like, you, that's really when that's my experience, you can really feel the network, just firing in a different way. And of course, might not be possible for every meal, but just like to know that you have that ability to bring in that attention for life to unfold. Right before you and within you.
Tonya Papanikolov 1:13:09
Yeah, it's essential, it's essential, exactly. It's like extensive, like that lens that you can view the world through. And in similar to how we know, we, we know and come to accept and I have actually also like created a space with weights like a gym weights. And we know that we can physically craft the body, we can craft muscles. And that meditation mantra, yoga words, like just awareness can literally do that as well on on the energetic level. It's a it's a workout, it's a, it's like a Yeah, a practice to, to strengthen the energetic body, just like yeah, just just like we would see our bodies transform.
Amanda Norgaard 1:14:02
That's such a good example. And I think that's going to make it more comprehensible for for people who might not have any experience so be around meditation or daily practice, like what is it it is like an energetic gym. And, and again, you know, back in the days where we lived in nature, we will be hunting and running and throwing and jumping like we had a more natural strong body but now because we live in the way that we do where we are more like passive, we do need to go to the gym or engage in conscious movement to build muscles and maintain muscles and physical health. And the same goes exactly for for the mind and the spirit, the energetic part of it. And then the more you do that, the more it will and again because we are adaptogenic well the more there is a cellular remembrance as well and muscular remembrance, right. So the more you work out a muscle, the stronger it'll get. And the almost like, the less you'll, you'll work like you'll need to lift like you're, the less, you'll need to work out at one point because you've built up a different muscular structure. My my partner also studies and teaches this very interesting workout system called Functional Patterns, which is really all about moving the body in the primal way. So, as you would if you if you, you know, work caveman, or like lift, if the nature of throwing, jumping, running all of these things, and so the movements of very organic and when I started working out this way, I had to work out weightless. And because the muscles that I build, we're not just you know, iron pump muscles, crunches, and then you know, summer body kind of thing, like, I really like work the core of the muscle, but but also the joints and the skeleton, so and what that did to my mental health as well like, being, like coming into a greater balance, like even feeling that the skeleton, the joints are in the right alignment, created, obviously, maybe not. So obviously, a Mental Alignment as well. And that reflects into in for everything at this point for me can be meditation, I still love my practice, and I do it most days, I really do. But I think the shadow side sometimes can be that you think that you will, oh i in order for me to be calm or reach my center or reach a meditative state space, I need to meditate and practice and for a certain amount of time, I believe that's true as we begin to, to, to, to work out areas of our psyche that we haven't been working out. But then the next step in the process, in my opinion, and experience is then realizing that oh, these are beautiful tools that I actively engaged with, but I'm not dependable on them I have all this power all this space or awareness and attention lives inside of me now. So now there are new champers and they can never be close by continue to, to air out the room and decorate and redecorate this also just such a because I think speaking of fear, sometimes they can be that's at least what I meet with some clients is oh, oh, I didn't meditate. Like now I'm a bad person. And I think this comes from an old program of we have to do things in a linear way. And in order for it to quote unquote, work, we have to do it every single day, and we have to be very rigid around it. And that's a beautiful healing to experience within the practice is is that oh, something that's meant to be for me only now, like, gets this filter of good and bad and perfectionist and whatnot. And I see that as a great opportunity for for healing. Yeah.
Tonya Papanikolov 1:18:22
I love that. Yeah, it made me think of there's a study that came out recently that shows that like, I don't know if I want to say expert, but just long term meditators like with over 10,000 hours reach the same brain states as people when they're on psilocybin, like the same, the same things are happening which really is makes so much sense like just what we were just saying about the fractal the slowing down the feeling like you are in an altered state is it's just like it's just like at the ability to kind of snap your fingers a little bit more and like know how to get there. Like a bit of like sea legs like they like they say
Amanda Norgaard 1:19:07
I really love what you said about it being sensual as well. I think sensuality and I think we've just we have a very confined idea of what sensuality means that only being related to sexuality which is also just so fragmented because sexuality is the creative power and so much more than intercourse but sensuality and exactly as you say like look if people high on on on magic mushrooms, right they'll take like a bite of an apple and it will be like the most delicious apple ever. Yeah. And you can create that internal state at all times where every bite you take and oh even like feeling the air on your skin and seeing the beauty that is right in front of your eyes. And life is sensual and I believe that sensuality really is the medicines and Reality is, is slower, it's juicy, it's nourishing it's like honey for the system. And in a time and age with so many burned out, dried out, fractured body mind spirit, like we need that like slow moving, it's also just sensuality is also the ability to be moved right? To be moved by poetry to be moved by the sound of your lover to be more hands to by your friends, everything with exactly a human and human exchange of connection like that sensuality is, is also sensitivity. And the more sensitive we become, the more sensual we become. And the more sensual become the more sensitive we become. It's really the ability to take in the richness of life. Yeah. And that's why I think creativity is so on the rise like with, you know, geniuses like Rick Rubin, who now just wrote a book that is, you know, blasting all over the world where he and he starts the book by saying, you know, you don't have to agree with everything. And even just reading this like, horse, I don't have to agree with everything, like coming a goat like leaving this black and white idea behind. But he talks about creativity, and the book is so rich and so sensual, and you read it. And this is a beautiful way of coming back online into your body, like, recognizing the somatic responses is like, I feel something moving here. Like, there's something here for me to explore. I'm reminded of something it's like there's an echo in my cellular structure. There's something
Tonya Papanikolov 1:21:51
so it's so juicy. I was just having a conversation with Simon about sensuality. Because we both there's a misuse here on Saltspring Island. There's gifted healers here. It's really incredible. There was this a woman who I had a body like a massage with, she also does acupuncture and I mean, her touch is just otherworldly. It's sensual. It's, it's not sexual, it is sensual. And it's and that's really just an, like, an experience of it's such a it's such a funny word that I think we reserved for only a few people. And, and so you know, him and I were having this discussion about this, Miss Susan, I was like, You need to go see her like, this is gonna blow your mind. And, and he can't he came back and he was like, that was sensual. And I was like, I know. And like, it's like, you should have that I should have that we should have that separately and together and with our friends. And it's like, there is there's a boundary it's a clear boundary. It's not it's it's not a turn on, like sexually it is. It's a turn on of the mind and of the senses and like Yeah, exactly. coming online of aliveness. And, yeah, it's, it's really, such a delightful way to go through life.
Amanda Norgaard 1:23:22
Yeah, it's so true. And it's I'm sure in that experience, you must have come across some of the societal conditioning you have installed around sensuality being that it's reserved for a few people only if something essential it will lead to something sexual right? Am I even Am I way even feeling maybe I've had this multiple times, feeling having a sensual experience, and even feeling shame around it because all the ideas of oh, that being this is this now a sexual experience. And when No, no boundaries were crossed whatsoever. But again, so embedded deep within the psyche of and that just thinking how we have lived cut off from the vital aliveness, which is also sensuality is Wow, and I've had I had a very powerful sensual sacral awakening. I feel like this is the fifth time I mentioned I had like an awakening. And but I'm coming coming online last summer. And it was so it was the most beautiful thing but it was also the most terrifying thing. experience because I really, through that personal experience, I understood why society as we know it certain structures of fighting newer structures or not even a structure but a new vibration, I was so terrified of this power within me that was untamed, unleashed so alive, wouldn't follow my rules, right wouldn't follow my control, narrow minded confined rules of what I could be or how I could be expressed or how I could take in life. Right. And we can call it like an awakening of the feminine but for sure, but, but just coming into a greater union, and ever since that and that, like that ocean was really, you know, an ocean for me to explore for months. And it was Oh beautiful to sit with the fears and sit with the, with all of it, but also sit with the beauty and the aliveness. And on the other side of it, having this as such an integrated part of me, I have been caught, I've become more whole, I've become more authentic, because I'm an incredibly sensual person. But I was always mirrored as like a flirt. Or like eating leading men on a lot. And the last essay I just wrote is exactly about this dismantling the male gaze and not no longer looking for daddy. But understanding that my sensuality my mystery, my creativity is exist for me and my pleasure, first and foremost. And I think, for women, and probably also some men, that's a revolution and a big blowing up of the psychic framework, because we've been taught, mirrored and shown otherwise.
Tonya Papanikolov 1:26:46
Yeah, well, we will have to save that more for another episode, I would love to, to go into that more with you. It's, it's so so interesting. And, like, it's cool to like the the psychedelic piece if you've ever experienced, like a therapeutic MDMA, or doesn't even have to be therapeutic, just MDMA in general, but in the therapeutic setting, like or to experience that with friends, centrally sensuality, out sexuality is it's such a relief as a woman, it's such a relief, to just be able to like, you know, like, stroke your friends arm lovingly. And be just that. And like, yeah, yeah,
Amanda Norgaard 1:27:33
exactly. Yeah, I've, I went through eight months of MDMA therapy last year. And it was a very sensual room to be in. Again, all boundaries were totally set, but it was also very vulnerable to, to be witnessed in that. In that aliveness. But and I also remember, like when Casper and I went to Peru together. So healing even as a couple to after we were in isolation for the majority. So we didn't, we had nothing to do with one another. But the last week, we came back, and we did the ceremonies together, and we could lay out in the grass after a ceremony and just be very tender with each other without it, leading to intercourse because we weren't allowed to have sex. And with the, with the other participants, it's a bond that is so deep, and will be so deep forever because we were so there was such an innocence, with this sensuality just such an an openness and, and, and, and it's a very, again, I think that's why also being in touch with your emotions, feeling and honoring your anger is is crucial for boundaries, because boundaries are crucial for vulnerability, because that's really what creates the internal safety that allows you to open and so I feel like I'm not shy and sharing. And I think also just as a poet and a storyteller, it's really my vibe and even in my classes in my courses, it's creative mosh pit and I use myself so much because I can't help but not but I can only do that because I know my boundaries. And and it's not I don't spend a lot of energy and understanding my boundaries. They just their natural part of me and I think that's very important. That's why I can that's why I meet the world so openly. And because I feel very safe within myself. So the world is a safe place for me because I have created internal safety and again, growing up in a very dysfunctional home where there was ever Think about safety that has been my journey. The nervous system, you know, a chill nervous system is the biggest flex and it's so the filter was like we experienced life through. And so, yeah, so this idea of just like open your heart, it's like Yeah, but that doesn't necessarily work if you're a people pleaser. And if you're codependent, you know, like, you need to be able to discern and know your boundaries. And my therapist, actually the one who guided me through MDMA, because boundaries were a little blurry for me at one point, and even if there was a lot of activation around it, and she reframed it for me, and she was like, maybe just ask yourself what you need in this situation. And that made it so much more sweet and not so much about the other person but more like what do I more about me, which that's your boundaries, your boundaries are deeply personal and it's essentially about you. Yeah, yeah.
Tonya Papanikolov 1:31:02
Thank you for sharing that. We are at I'm I want to spend two hours together, which I'm so grateful for. And yeah, I guess my TO BE CONTINUED ultimately, I hope so. I would love to have you back. I feel like we could just keep going and going all day. And yeah, I guess my I always ask every guest to to share a prayer an intention, a wish just something from your heart to to end our session.
Amanda Norgaard 1:31:43
While speaking of aliveness, I really pray and wish for every human being to experience the vital aliveness, the essential aliveness Yeah, it's so beautiful
Tonya Papanikolov 1:31:55
in there. So it's so fun. It's really fun.
Amanda Norgaard 1:32:00
It's really fun.
Tonya Papanikolov 1:32:01
It's really fun. Thank you so much. You're you're truly just such a such a gift. And yeah, I am deeply deeply appreciative of your presence and you you all that you are, who you are. The work you're sharing and yeah, I feel like this is just just the beginning actually have any I'll tell you after popped into my head but yeah, thank you to be thing to be continued. Thank you.
mantra, creative, creative work, speaking, practice, sensuality, nature, lineage, language. Poet. poetry, psyche, fungi, connecting, connection, muse, rainbo podcast. Rainbo, conscious, unconscious, spirituality, storytelling, dreamer, dreaming, dreams, Kundalini Yoga