Ep 06 Natasja Pelgrom: Finding Your Spiritual Calling, Understanding Ascension and Awakening the Medicine Within
On finding your spiritual calling, understanding ascension and awakening the medicine within
I’m joined by Natasja Pelgrom, founder and vision keeper of Awaken The Medicine Within. She’s a mystic, devoted creative, and visionary whose life's work is to lead spiritual experiences that support others in their journey of transformation and growth. In our conversation, we touch on discovering your sovereignty in your spiritual calling, what clair sensory abilities are and how to cultivate them, and observations about the ascension process.
I’m joined by Natasja Pelgrom, founder and vision keeper of Awaken The Medicine Within. She’s a mystic, devoted creative, and visionary whose life's work is to lead spiritual experiences that support others in their journey of transformation and growth. In our conversation, we touch on discovering your sovereignty in your spiritual calling, what clair senses are and how to cultivate their abilities, and observations about the ascension process.
Natasja’s trauma-informed work is rooted in safety, trustworthiness, collaboration, and empowerment. She breaks down her understanding of the four psychic clair senses and how to differentiate the types of knowings there are. She also describes ways that she’s created boundaries and a sense of responsibility around her visions, which can be difficult when you experience such potent downloads.
Natasja highlights influential guides and traditions that she’s encountered on her journey, but emphasizes that her greatest teacher has always been herself. We discuss the fluidity of spirituality and our interpretations of ascension. Listen in to hear more of Natasja’s incredible wisdom on energy and spiritual evolution.
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favorite podcast platform.
- Natasja’s journey to awakening the medicine within
- Speaking into ascension from an Earth perspective
- Cleaning up the polarity inside of you and understanding your programming
- The need for slow growth, guides, and enriching daily practices
- The lack of initiation processes in Western cultures and the effect that has on spiritual growth
- Learn more about Natasja natasjapelgrom.com
- Follow Natasja on Instagram: @natasja_pelgrom
- Enjoy free access to 21 Days of Gratitude Practice and one month access to all community platform content: awakenthemedicinewithin.com
- Follow me on Instagram: @tonyapapanikolove
- Follow Rainbo on Instagram: @rainbomushrooms
- Shop Rainbo: rainbo.com
Tonya Papanikolov 00:04
Hi, welcome to the Rainbo podcast. I'm your host, Tonya Papanikolov. Rainbo and I are on a mission to upgrade humanity with fungi and expand the collective conscious. This podcast builds a virtual mycelial network of bold, open minded thinkers and seekers. I chat with experts, thought leaders, healers, scientists, entrepreneurs, spiritual teachers, activists, and dreamers. These are stories of healing, human potential and expansion, tune in route and expand and journey with us.
Tonya Papanikolov 00:46
Hi, Welcome back friends. Today I'm chatting with Natasha Pilgrim, who is a mystic, a devoted creative and visionary whose life's work is to lead spiritual experiences that support others in their journey of transformation and growth. Natasha is the founder and vision keeper of awaken the medicine within retreats and programs. She's a highly intuitive guide and has held training assisting and facilitation roles for over 800 Psychedelic ceremonies. She's mentored over 2000 clients and currently advises and curates programs for wellness companies. She also does mentoring for leaders, CEOs, business owners, have focus on on lots of women's retreats, and she is a powerful force of nature. I love our conversation. I come away feeling really empowered, and she has a wonderful take.
Tonya Papanikolov 01:43
She's really humble, and real with her experience of growth and life and everything in between. And it's really relatable. So I hope that you really love listening, we dive into all sorts of interesting topics like finding your spiritual calling, what ascension is clear sensory wisdom channels and what these extrasensory abilities are and how to define them and and see them and foster them when we talk about alchemy. And really just this whole topic of awakening the medicine within and she really does that and stirs that within me. And and I hope you too through this conversation. Let's dive in
Tonya Papanikolov 02:26
Hey Hello, Natasha.
Natasja Pelgrom 02:28
Tonya Papanikolov 02:30
I'm so happy to have you here with us and to be in conversation with you. And yeah, learning and flowing with you. Thank you so much for being with us today.
Natasja Pelgrom 02:39
You're so welcome and exciting to be here and for your audience and getting to know each other. And so thank you for doing this work and bringing all this education and information into the world. So thank you for inviting me.
Tonya Papanikolov 02:51
Likewise, thank you so much for all that you do. And I guess my initial introduction to you and your work was just through social media, which I feel like is the easiest platform for us to find each other these days. But I was just so drawn to you and drawn to the work that you do. I've seen that you're a founding member of synthesis, and just doing really important work for people this time, though, would you? Would you mind introducing yourself telling us a bit about you and who you are and what you do?
Natasja Pelgrom 03:21
Yeah, of course. So just to rectify, I mean, I'm not part of synthesis anymore. So just so you know, by the time we're recording this, myself and a group of five, six, we were the founding members. And I call that founding members because we were the initiators of the programs as it's still being executed today. So I left almost a year now, however, so before that, my whole journey, yeah, I can go so many directions, you know, but let's just start off by saying that as a very young child, and mostly in the beginning teenage years, around 1213, I started becoming very aware that I felt that there was more between heaven and earth. And I always felt very connected, there was just a deep knowing inside of me as a child. And that knowing now at 43, I understand is a very shamanic knowing is a very shamanic way of being. And if I would have been born in a tribal sense, you know, I might have been chosen to do something specific with that connection, light, but we live in the worlds that we live in, and we grow up into families that we grow up and that I'm very grateful for because it also brought me who I am today, right?
Natasja Pelgrom 04:36
So But growing up really noticing and knowing there is more and I've been very lucky to grow up in three different cultures. And through that flexibility of weaving into these different cultures and being very connected to nature. I could always very much explore different ways of being and at the age of 14 I was so curious already because Everything that society was presenting would not make sense to me. It just was like, Yeah, sure, I think we're playing a little game here. But in truth, we're just pretending. And that was always this deep edit, like I said, is deep knowing. So I'm saying the age of 14, because that was really the time where I had my first psychedelic experience where it was super recreational with my very first boyfriend, we went to Amsterdam, you could buy the mushrooms in a smart shop. And we went in back in the day, we had CD stores for those of the generation who do not know what it is.
Natasja Pelgrom 05:37
But you know, you go into your shop and listen to music and buy a whole album, you know. So that's how I discovered that a lot of the things that I was picking up on actually made sense because I felt so connected to the invisible. And I could see sense feel energy, and geometric patterning already as a young child in nature. And through the psychedelic experience through the entheogenic journeys, I've been able to really bridge and understand what I experienced there. So all of the things that I've always been searching was a way for me to make sense, a sense making way of making a purpose and meaning. So my spiritual connection really got embedded at that age, I even got a tattoo of the ohm sign, because Hinduism was the first way that I really discovered a spiritual connection with a teacher through parents of my very good friend.
Natasja Pelgrom 06:36
And so my path unfolded that way, at the age of 18, I was already connected very much to Zen Buddhism and meditation, Reiki, I became Reiki master the age of 20. So all of these things always accompanied me. I've also had a very, I say that a very grounded a no nonsense kind of way of being because of I think it's a cultural thing of my Dutch side. You know, there is a Dutch saying, be normal, you already crazy enough. So I've also very much always been drawn to a very entrepreneurial and creative side. So I've studied photography, and I've had multiple businesses in the entertainment and fashion industry and really walked the limelight of being very popular and nightlife and sex, drugs and rock'n'roll and all of those things. So I've done both. Yeah, I've always walked in both places, because I was curious. That's the start of it a bit of my journey.
Tonya Papanikolov 07:32
Wow, thank you for sharing that I actually resonate to so many pieces of that. And I wonder when you're walking both paths, was that really comfortable? Or was there a sense of misalignment? Or were you just like, I'm here, I'm doing this. I'm present for this, like drugs, rock and roll, drugs, sex rock and roll bit? Or was it like, exploring it to help you realize that like, Oh, this is not for me, and I need to shift back here.
Natasja Pelgrom 07:59
They're both, you know, I mean, I think there's Yeah, it's a great question. I think it's very nuanced chord, you know, there's nuances, why we are programmed the way we are, what kind of trauma do we have? What kind of parenting do we have? How do we grow up those fuels are the the environments that we choose to be in. And extremely, that choice of wanting to be in extreme environments, and seeking the thrill of life comes from a wounded place inside of me, and understanding that wounded place, to some degree made me realize, this is not fully expressing who I am. Because if I go back to the young girl who understood in deep knowing and being feeling very connected to spirit into life, I was 100%. In that life, I was also me, you know, I was very authentically in that moment.
Natasja Pelgrom 08:49
But I was also very much breaking myself down and not fully walking everything, not fully being in my spiritual path. So spirituality to very recently actually was always a part that was more hidden and I was more ashamed of, and I felt more judged for, because it can also be an era of time, this was 10 years ago, I really stepped out of that closet 100%. So it took me quite a while to because if you aren't into entertainment, or any kind of, or sales industry, or you know, your spiritual aspects or those things, we connect them with a lot of dogmas, we'd connect them to religion, we connect him, you know, to certain things or ideas that we have, and there was a lot of pain and division on those beliefs as well. So yeah, I mean, that alignment, I felt very aligned with those choices in that moment because of where I was. But I also knew I wasn't fulfilling fully my full authenticity, right? Because at the end of the day, I can share a quick anecdote I used to own a club with with a bar with a gallery shop. hairdresser was a hole in big building.
Natasja Pelgrom 09:59
There was a It was a great, it was amazing. And I remember sitting at my bar, and I was under the influence of something. And I was literally seen, because that was already a natural state for me to be in. So with any substance, it would be, I would be even more into it. But I would cross so many boundaries of consent. And the way that I now work and trauma, being trauma informed the way that I work right now, I would just turn around to someone and just tell them, you know, in their energy field, what was going on and give them a reading without even asking if they wanted it? How to not be in alignment? Yeah, that's an absolute example. And I know what that moment by the response of wire went, like, I crossed a boundary here, this is not okay. And you need a 10 times of those kinds of things to realize, and many, many others who say, this is not the life I want. Yeah, I step out, and I stepped out 100%. And, yeah, started dedicating my life to what I did today, you know,
Tonya Papanikolov 10:55
that is quite the journey. And, you know, I think so, like something that I just got, like body chills a few times as you're speaking, which is always I think, when I just hear truth that I resonate with, and that is always the way that it comes into my body. I'm curious to know, like, what do you a lot of us who are on a spiritual path, who have had this sense of knowing, since we've been little kids, and then there's a challenge in stepping into who we are, and living fully and being that and embodying that. And yet, there's these these messages along the way, and these little breadcrumbs with these big moments or small moments? Whatever it is that kind of like lights up the soul to like, tell it to follow these paths? Do you have a lot of people coming to you with that life transition, where it's hard for them to step into this role, or into this phase? Or into who they truly are? And what is that, like,
Natasja Pelgrom 11:53
there is a difference. So there is a really beautiful growth that has taken place in the last 20 years. Because when I was so 1920, now did my ranking and the Masters, nobody had any idea what I was talking about, they literally thought I was googoo, Gaga, you know, I had friends that were close to me that were had the same interest, what I would practice on and even my mom was open for it. I did sessions on my mom. And of course with there wasn't social media. So our reach was very different to getting types of information you really had to write for it. So there is a very big shift in the last one years on, there's less taboo. And there is an easier way for people to find who are curious in that way to follow people on social media to follow people like you to get in the right podcasts that you can say like, Hey, this resonates, hey, this sounds this feels like you said, the body cannot lie.
Natasja Pelgrom 12:48
The body will resonate or will not so you will feel in your system if something is for your truth and or if it isn't, and sometimes it isn't truth in that moment, but in 10 years time, we will be you know, so things also change and we evolved. So stepping out of the closet. Let's say that, that moment of shifting and finding your voice and finding that truth. It has a lot to do with recognizing what's already there around you. So as you were speaking for me, it was really like I shared my friend growing up. We were 1516 1514 1516 around that age. And her parents were connected to the ashram and with a Hindu guru. And through that relationship, I discovered things I discovered meditation, I discovered mantras I saw the VHS videos of his teachings, you know, and her house to her family was a teaching for me. So and the same goes with my other friend, Hiro, who is now one of the teachers of the Drunvalo Melchizedek, which is the School of remembering wakened illuminated heart.
Natasja Pelgrom 13:52
And you know, I was studying photography and I know are when I was 1819. And she was already full on on this path. You know, she was full on on the esoteric path. On the ascension path. She was an educator for me, she always came up with the craziest books for me to read. And it was the only one who gave me a little bit of sense and came with things that I didn't know about. Yeah, so yield the listener is probably already attracting, without you needing to make an effort, the type of people around you that will guide you along the way. Those are your teachers. Sure, you can find things online and you can do a course. But the real teachers are naturally evolving around you. Absolutely. That's how I feel that it happens more than anything. Yeah,
Tonya Papanikolov 14:36
I so agree. And you know, in my early 20s, I was also one of my dear friends, the only person who I could talk about any of this stuff with and who introduced me to so so much and we just went on a journey together. And so will you tell us a little bit more about the Claire sensory gifts and we have the five senses that we all know about? And then There's these extra sensory senses. Extra, is that right? extra sensory?
Natasja Pelgrom 15:05
extra sensory? Yes. Because the sensory, it is whatever. Yeah.
Tonya Papanikolov 15:12
Yeah, so and we have a range of those. And I always like to think that like once you start to lubricate maybe the third eye and your intuition becomes stronger that these are innate capacities that we can all cultivate.
Natasja Pelgrom 15:25
Absolutely. So first of all, I truly believe with all my heart that all of us have the sensories Claire sensory abilities, I'm not more special than you are no, no, like mediumship. psychic ability, the ones some people have a muscle like DNA, that is a muscle that is more trained. But it doesn't mean that someone cannot train it, it's most of the time, a matter of unlearning, to get into that. sensibility, that awareness, it's whatever is preventing you from seeing, sensing feeling and discovering what is your way, because my way is a combination of and your way might be very much somatic, you might actually feel a lot more through the body than you're being taught in the environment that you grow up in. So the Clarus sensory is you can have clair voyance, Claire audience, glare, cognizance, Claire empathy clairsentience. So there's a combination that you can have. And it's really about feeling, knowing, hearing, even tasting, I have a very good friend when I hold my hosts our retreats, from awakened to medicine within. And she's shamanic Lee trained. And a lot of some of it, sometimes she can taste someone's process, especially when it's, let's say the more shadow aspect and things get moving, she tastes or smells it Wow.
Natasja Pelgrom 16:57
And it says it's crucial. Like it's a good smell. Now it's like, oh, like it's a charcoal or a can egg smell or something is shifting. And some people have that when they can smell someone's sick, for example, but you're just not aware you so you're not even picking up your subconscious mind that we function through 80% of our so for our conscious mind, our conscious mind is just like really not that important. Motor, yeah, so I say growing up, it was extremely confusing, because, for example, having clear hearing people can have from zero to 10. So I have an average of about five of all and it really depends on also in what stages and where I'm at, where something comes in. So a knowing is for me the strongest is that at present, it's a clear knowing my and it's not an egoic. Knowing an egoic knowing is very different than an inner heart, knowing an egoic knowing is always in separation. And inner knowing is always out of oneness. There is no judgment in that knowing. And so this is why you can differentiate the type of knowings there are not I think I know a better for you, where you should do that's not an adult. No,
Tonya Papanikolov 18:16
yeah, I love that. And one way that I describe that, it's like I know my mother, it's like I know something so deeply and truly, that they're
Natasja Pelgrom 18:26
exactly, I'll give you a fun example of a way when I was in a training. And you have remote viewing, which is something that is most heard of, especially nowadays, you actually have quite a lot of groups and children that have that so naturally so high in their skill set. I you know, I don't have that. So high my skill set, I would really need to practice more, but it's something that could it could be practiced over time. And with the right guidance, and my teachers, everybody can do it. This is the thing, everybody can really do it. So I wasn't a training. And we were practicing clear hearing and the clear. hearing was like my Dutch side, I get super practical. I'm like, Yeah, sure, I can go somewhere and listen, but who says that I'm just not. It's my fancy because I have a great, fantastic mind. So we did this practice, and I figured at that time, and a really good friend of mine. He was in Thailand. And I was like, You know what, I'm gonna go to him and then afterwards I'm going to send them a message. If it's true what I heard. I felt like I need to measure it. Is this true?
Natasja Pelgrom 19:30
So I went there and it was so interesting because the type of hearing what then happens is so crisp, it's like a snowing. So there is a combination and that Christmas like I ended up in his room, and I could just feel what it felt like for breezed to hear the breeze coming and touching the curtain and then a while I've been speaking Portuguese just now so now suddenly the Portuguese word is coming up. You know like what you have on your ceiling like So for those that are listening, I'm seeing a fan in their ceiling. So instead of using the video, so I heard a van and I saw the breeze and then in faraway, I heard TV sounds, and there was a sound of initiation of an intimate moment between two people. And I was like, Oh, my God. I was like, Well, this is my friend. First of all, I don't want to hear him have sex. So I'm just gonna leave this is unapproved. This isn't I don't have a consent for this, you know, I felt so inappropriate to do that.
Natasja Pelgrom 20:33
So I was like, I'm gonna leave. But I was smart. And I said, like, I'm gonna go to the toilet, stepped out of the room and send him a message. Don't ask me anything, but just tell me if this is true. Are you in a room? Is there a TV on? Is there a van on and you're about to have? This is the message? What the heck, I'm sorry for my beautiful friends here. But so that's the only month. That's okay. Tell you later. This is a friend who could also understand where what type of things I'd be curious about. And I told him like, this was I was doing so he sent me that and I was like, whoa, okay, now I can build on this stress. Because the thing when you begin exploring this, and I always say, have proper guidance, know what you're doing, protect yourself, don't get mashed into the phenomena of this, you don't have permission, I don't use these skill sets outside of my work at all.
Natasja Pelgrom 21:32
If I don't have permission, if I'm with my family, or my partner, my partner, and I made an agreement from the get go. I one time looked at something. And I told him, and he said, like you you'd never have permission to do that. And, like, whoa, and I got so scared. And I was like, shit, you know, I love him. This is we don't You don't do that. So there was a responsibility with it as well, the phenomena is not that interesting, it gets pretty boring pretty quickly.
Tonya Papanikolov 21:57
Yeah, that's such a really important point to hone into. Just before we hopped on this morning for me, I was chatting with my sister. And last night as I was going to bed, I love dream space, a lot. Like that is a very potent place for symbolism. And so last night before I was, but I was in this lucid state where I thought of this old friend. And she had just had her baby, I haven't spoken with her I don't know her due date. And this morning, it turns out that she had her baby last night. And in my state, I was like, messaged her reach out. And, you know, didn't think I wasn't actually sure if she had her baby or not. I just was thinking of her. But it's there's always really interesting insights that come through. And I also like what you said about just trusting it. And I think there's a level of practice. Like, I think that trust piece is kind of like you don't always like having that insight wouldn't have made me think like, Oh, she's having her baby right now. And I think we all probably receive a lot of visions or these types of things, but it's just kind of how do you know what to trust?
Natasja Pelgrom 23:04
Exactly. So when you have a framework that you could work with, right, like, the type of training that you could work with that protects you, you will be able to then start trusting the moment you're actually in a working environment and training on it, you know, like pairing up. And so these kinds of things really help to start trusting. So that's one second, I think the main responsibility, even if we just step away out of this topic, anybody I believe that is looking for one way or another of growth, you are responsible for yourself that means if you want to step into self leadership, the first step you have to take is accountability. And step out of duality and victim and aggressor role. That means that you have to clean up the polarity inside of you. So the polarity outside is a reflection of the polarity inside you we live in a very polarity place, the whole COVID was an explosion of polarity for many, many different ways and forms and it keeps on coming like a rush, you know, like coming that in.
Natasja Pelgrom 24:13
So the more you clean up, the polarity inside the duality inside understand the duality understand, where are you responding from who is at your diversity is that the inner child is that the wounded who's speaking in this moment, and that takes time. And that's not a course of a month. That's a lifelong inquiry with yourself and unlearning and learning and embracing and moving on and living and being in relationships with people that you don't like, and figuring all of those things out. That responsibility. If you look at life that way, and in that process, you'll be able to have a lot more clarity and discernment about the ethical part. I have using this in the right way. So then what happens is that you will have a natural ability to hold space, you'll have a natural ability.
Natasja Pelgrom 25:11
So what you picked up on with your sister, I think all of us pick up on so much throughout today. But the cleaner our vessel, our cleaner, our mentally, emotionally, spiritually we are the cleaner, we understand what is our responsibility and what simply isn't, just because you get the information, this was my confusion for decades. Just because I get information doesn't mean I'm responsible. And because a sense of responsibility was there embedded from an inner child wounding, I got super meshed in wanting to save the world. Right, so you have to understand that programming, and that takes time. And right now a lot of the things that we get pushed in is quick, we have 32nd 92nd wheels, you know, and then we're already need a newer entertainment, you know, but this, this work, growth is slow, and it takes time, and it takes integration and integration is becoming multiple parts becoming one where it becomes a way of who you are.
Tonya Papanikolov 26:20
Yeah, it's so true. You know, I feel that in the West, and like such a big part of the world, we have such a, we're so spiritually hungry. And we don't have that relationship to spirit like maybe that exists in especially in like in ancient China, in India, in a lot of these cultures where there's like rich teachings and developments around the spirit, and spirituality. And so I think that so many of us are like, we want this quick fix, we're so used to having the pharmaceutical, the medicine, the drug, the even reaching for psychedelic sometimes. So it's so profound, and it's just the beginning and like this catalyzing experience, but I really feel that what we need is like longer term slow growth and guides like you and like rich spiritual experiences, meditation, like the practices, the daily practices that will bring us into that because we need reminders. We need we need so many reminders. So literally something that I read, I think it was from you, but just about this journey of alchemy and the way that we like you know, I think as you were as you were telling me telling us about your friend who is smelling and could smell those like changes I thought about alchemy in this process of transformation and what we know it to be as this you know transmutation of base and base metals into gold but really that it's it's a journey of transformation in in the physical body and spirit
Natasja Pelgrom 27:55
Absolutely it's very beautiful to understand not about discarding the pain not did not about discarding for some people might be shadow aspects for some people might be more of the word wounding or you know, or trauma. It's not about that and especially not our emotions, you know, our human emotions are there for a reason and that embrace however, when we look at something through a framework, for example, Alchemy, right there is a journey of to completion with it, there is an initiation and one of the things that I think were you shared about also about the lack of spirituality in that connection I think I personally truly believe that the our mental health crisis is a spiritual crisis because of there is a lack of meaning and purpose. There is no initiation except maybe your birth your death or your graduation maybe for men only military you know, there isn't much there isn't a form of a vision quest.
Natasja Pelgrom 28:55
There isn't a female bodies have the moon cycle and that we have just poorly executed and informed as an you know, like, poorly. Yes. Luckily my mother was extremely open. My Dutch mother was extremely open about it. But my Portuguese grandmother was so much taboo. Don't speak about it. Don't let men ever know that you have your moon cycle. I don't say menstruation anymore because of the word men in it. I was like, No, I'm a moon cycle.
Tonya Papanikolov 29:24
Oh my gosh, I've never thought about that.
Natasja Pelgrom 29:26
Yeah, it's like why does that work? Because words words are it's witchcraft, you know, I get a better way. words mean something spells. That's the route that I wanted to. But it's indeed spells Yeah. So So I every way we speak that's what we're calling in. But I'm going a bit off topic now. But it's the way of so alchemy. So if we look at like our menstrual cycle, if we look at our moon cycle, you know, like, if we look at all these cycles, you know, and the initiation cycle, the hero's journey, which is something that is so fascinating that the US have adopted in the film industry and entertainment industry, the hero's journey, where we are addicted to, I believe the movies that we are addicted to in that way, which I also love seeing absolutely is because there is a lack of that kind of process in our own society and in our own life.
Natasja Pelgrom 30:22
So alchemy is a format that we could look at, of seeing that for a metaphor, I lotus, the representation of the lotus, is one of the most beautiful plants, I believe in nature that really says, I can only grow out of mud. And I will go through the depths of the waters of the womb of this earth to reach the light. That's an alchemical process. So if you look at your own life, and the challenges and the nitty gritty, the wonder places, and there are gifts that you've learned, there are skill sets that you've learned, from the deepest wonder place of the deepest trauma, I've learned an amazing skill set, which is I understand the underdog, I understand what it is to be an absolute fear, I understand what it is to keep people safe. those skill sets are now my major skill set, they became my five pillars in the retreats that I provide, and they became the trauma informed work, which is safety, trustworthiness, collaboration, empowerment.
Natasja Pelgrom 31:34
So these are the things that have ended up being pillars in the type of space holding can contain it at an hour provide for other people. So and it's not about doing this quick fix positive psychology and gratitude practice and forgive the person that abused you. Absolutely not, you know, that's not a, but in the end of the day, those experiences have created, you have created a positive skill set out of it. And it's just a matter of time that you you're the load is inside of you comes to the surface and reaches the light and understands that that's the alchemical process. Oh, I see it. And that could be emotional. And that could be spiritual, that could be physical, that could be mental. From all those parts. We have the cycles that we go through, we just lack guidance and elders that can tell us listen, your baby still in this cycle, you have to learn maybe to be a bit more patient. And then we'll teach you a bit more. You know, we just lack a little bit of that guidance in our society. Yeah, yeah.
Tonya Papanikolov 32:41
Thank you so much. That's such a beautiful interpretation and description, and story around alchemy and the journey and process. And I think you know, what you just mentioned about the elders, I feel that teachers having a guide in this process is so so essential. Have you had teachers on your path? I imagine many,
Natasja Pelgrom 33:05
yes. So the teachers that I named that I want, you know, the two friends that I see that really also as teachers, right, I also see my father and my mother, through all the wounding and the things that I really do not appreciate about me growing up, also is very deep teachings. Those are teachers. So there are so many forms of teachers out there. And then of course, you also have the teachers, that you once you're ready there will show up the elders and sometimes you walk a path for a short amount of time. And sometimes it's a multiple year, I want example is from the Hopi tradition, and Native American Hopi tradition of multiple year of how to teachers in that tradition for many years there. And then there was a form of interesting completion where it just it wasn't there anymore, I was ready for something else. And then I waited and I really wanted an elder in my life.
Natasja Pelgrom 33:56
And I was really interesting because I waited for about three to four years. And I had this beautiful session where the grandmother, Florida, my yo and all these different teachers from Native traditions, like a one on one session, and I had a session with Mila dama Soma, who died recently, this year was an African elder, and I was just really doing this one on one sessions with all these elders going, you wouldn't be my elder. And I would say like, I want to connect to elders, you know. And then I would get the teaching of the trees or your elders, you know, and I would get a whole teaching on that. I was like, Oh, God, yeah, that was were very empowering to but there was a time and a place for everything. And apparently, you know, I had to wait three years to discover that the teacher that I was looking for was already there next to me, and I was already in communication with her. It was just not in a way that I saw at that moment that it was taking place.
Natasja Pelgrom 34:49
And right now we have gone into a very deep more apprenticeship relationship. So those come and go in many different shapes and forms and we're always influenced. I'm very interested wants to buy pagan tradition already from a very young age, Native American tradition and pagan tradition has been I've always very, very curious to it. I remember at very young age, I had this witches book, and I was making potions and so many things ends and you know, like, so yeah. And going with the cycles of the pagan cycles and explaining nature. And I always love the relational space with nature. That's for me, the way that cycle is, for me the cycle that is most natural and more, most instinctual to our systems, adapting something that is very foreign. For me, it would be great. It's great to learn or things, but I say, always think, stay close to where you are.
Natasja Pelgrom 35:43
What is the land that you're living on? You don't have to be born on that land. But where are you right now? What does that land teaching you? Who are the guardians of that land? What is the history of that land? How can you be in right relationship with that land? How can you honor the people, the elders of that land before you and be curious to learn, be curious to learn about the vegetation and the plants that are there, because those are medicines for what your system needs if when you live in that land. So that could also be already a very deep teaching, if you're interested more in permaculture, then go in that realm, you don't have to go into spiritual route. You know, there are so many different ways of exploring and meaning making and purpose. So
Tonya Papanikolov 36:28
I love everything that you have to say, I have, there's like, literally, I would love to chat with you a bit more, like I'd mentioned earlier about finding one's spiritual calling, and how you I think, for me, it's kind of, in my 20s, as I kind of stepped into a spiritual path as well, I was really uncomfortable. And in this transition of careers, and really like stepping into the unknown of something I knew I needed to do, but wasn't really sure what it would look like. And I was like, very intentional about reading books about Dharma, and about what I felt how I wanted to approach life and ultimately, like finding a lot of meaning and what I what I wanted to do, it's a topic that I love to explore and books, I'd love to read about the Will you tell us about your process in working with others in yourself? Just about what that stepping into one spiritual calling looks like?
Natasja Pelgrom 37:21
Yeah, that's a big question. There's a big question, because it's such a personal process. And first of all, stepping on consciously on that path, right? Because it's, that's the first step, it's a conscious path. And then there is, of course, you have your own journey with that, to explore what things mean to you, no one can tell you what something means. So it's really about unplugging in a way and uncovering your sovereignty in it. Because I believe that the amazing thing that we are in the age that we are right now, which you know, we also have the shadow aspect of everything, but the positive aspect is that you are your own guru, we are the you know, you can even see in marketing, no, I even do it in my own marketing, you know, I'm, I'm the product, right? Like, I'm my own product in that way.
Natasja Pelgrom 38:18
So and that asks you to explore multiple things without appropriation of them, but you're invited to explore more things, life invites you to go on a discovery. Life invites you to Yeah, what is there for you to uncover? And for you to learn about yourself. So it's a very personal path. And I believe, giving your power away to someone else, it's something else and having an elder and a teacher that can get can be a guide. And a good elder good teacher will always say the word guide, because the true teacher is yourself. The true teacher is nature. Our Earth is our true teacher. So a good guide will reflect that wisdom to you, you giving your power away to access spirit or to divine through a third party. I would put a lot of question marks behind that, that the age that we're actually leaving from, you know, we're we're trying to find a way okay, how then do we do that?
Natasja Pelgrom 39:23
I would always say one of the things that I see with a lot of the clients so I the work that I do, of course is in facilitation in art retreat work, but then I work a lot with people in mentoring one on one over an extended amount of time. I don't do apprenticeships, so that's the difference. I mentor people and where they are. And in that mentoring the people that come there as coaches, healers, space holders, a lot of therapists, a lot of female therapists from psychotherapist to counselors, and which is interesting and because there was a okay, I've done this academic approach. I also have an intuitive part. Why am I in that Part Who am I in that, in that spiritual part? So when we go into a process, what I'm invited to do as a mentor and a guide for people is to really see where are you in your process, what is already natural for you, and just help the individual create that muscle even more and more and more and trust them in our muscle.
Natasja Pelgrom 40:24
I believe that's the way forward. So even with a spirituality, I believe the practice is that you can do there is a difference between you being in your mundane and brushing your teeth and creating a sacred space. So if you are curious, what is sacred space mean? What would that mean to you to the listener? You know, what is the sacred space? What does that look like? What does it smell like? What does it taste like? What does it feel like? What kind of environment you're in? So that would be always my invitation. What kind of environment can you create that steps you out of, for example, an altar is actually the meaning of an altar is a high place, but it can also say a nature table. Right. But it's the place where I say to spirit of the Divine, here, I do my work. Here, I understand the power, the dedication to determined that I'm walking this path, that's why the altar is there. And it's not about giving your power away to a picture of something that is outside of yourself, the tools that you put on your altar is for you to have a materialized significance of the work that you're doing. There is a difference between creating an altar of an intention for a whole group, and an altar where I place where I do a ritual where I perform healing, there is a difference in that right.
Natasja Pelgrom 41:46
So your your spiritual path, but some might be very, you know, more with music, want to play an instrument and just light a candle and play an instrument and tone. And that is your spiritual practice. Right? That's the way you connect to something that is beyond your egoic structure. That's why you want to step that's a way to being out of your egoic self, your I Am, right and into more of what else is there? Who are we in that together? So and of course, meditation in any shape, or form, of course, is a is a very strong aspect of that. And then some of us are more open to more visual types of journeys. Some are more going into this more from a biohacking perspective. Because neurologically, you've read, you know, the scientific benefit, because it may creates focus.
Natasja Pelgrom 42:40
Why not? Is that less spiritual? I mean, I cannot say that, you know, I call I think that's, you know, again, what I always tried to stay away from is, my religion isn't better than yours. And my science is better than your science. It's, again, the polarity, we have so much polarity, how about we look at ourselves and say, Okay, how can I create a bridge? How can I be create a place where I'm nonjudgmental outcry, grade, a place where everybody feels safe and seen and heard and loved? Right. And maybe this is very Kumbaya, for some one world view, I believe, if you are going through our shared humanity, that's for me more spiritual than any practice there is. Because I believe, to my core that our physical bodies and our humanity is the expression of divinity, not a separation of, oh, if I want to connect to the Divine, if I want to be spiritual, if I want to be connecting with spirit is embracing my full humanity is embracing the act of listening, racing, creating moments that transcend mundane creating connection, and also how can I contribute to a community something that is beyond? How can I contribute to something that is a legacy that is beyond my personal needs, those qualities, if you can connect to those? I believe that's walking a virtuous life and spiritual life. It's not separate from a human life. Yeah. Not from at least.
Tonya Papanikolov 44:20
Totally. I love that so much. And I've been kind of like thinking about that a lot, lately, which is just that it's so refreshing, like spirituality can look, it's not meant to be dogmatic, right, like, that's what we're trying to move away from, and that it's so refreshing to see, like, everyone is spiritual. And it's not this practice or that practice that I have to do that, like I have to adhere to. And it's strict. It's just a connection. And no one can judge what that connection looks like for another human. And so there's realness. We're humans. We will make me make mistakes. We're still spiritual. It looks so many different ways. And it's Just that integration of polarities, I had this, like, I just came back from Burning Man a couple of days ago.
Natasja Pelgrom 45:05
I think I saw it on Instagram. I think I've Yeah, I saw you on Instagram. I was like, Oh, I'm having a conversation with you later, you're just back.
Tonya Papanikolov 45:11
So many beautiful, beautiful downloads. It's a really like potent and transformative experience. I was basically sober, and had an incredibly powerful experience. And but one thing I wanted to chat with you about is ascension. And what that is, because I've had so many really fascinating experiences where I've literally been like, What the fuck is happening. And so I started, you know, as I started to kind of, like, look into it and read more about it and understand it. I was like, oh, okay, but I would love, I would love to hear your take on it. And now I'm
Natasja Pelgrom 45:49
also curious about your experiences. By the way, I'm like, oh, what type of experiences that you have
Tonya Papanikolov 45:55
Something that I've really been learning on my journey, and like, very much embodying is my personal boundaries. And knowing that, like, I don't need a lot of any medicine to reach an altered state. And the most profound experiences, psychedelic experiences I've ever had, have been through meditation and breath truly, like, mind blowing ly powerful. And I'm very interested in exploring that further and spreading that message, because we can do that naturally through a lot of these practices, but specifically, what happened a little while ago, and it's a more frequent experience now, but in this one experience, there was like, it was like information flooding into my crown chakra at the speed of light, where I was in front of somebody, but I, you know, they were speaking to me, but I just couldn't, there was so much information flowing to me.
Tonya Papanikolov 46:48
And there was this experience of like, I cannot hold all of this right now. I need to write something down. This is all coming to me way too fast. And I got this like splitting headache and just was like vomiting. But also like, immense downloads, and the quality of information was like wow. And so I kind of started to look a bit further into it. And I was like, Okay, I think that this is maybe an ascension symptom, or something of that sort.
Natasja Pelgrom 47:17
Amazing that you have those experiences first and foremost, right, I hope you find a way to differentiate the space because it becomes so liminal. Right when you have those kinds of experiences. And we can get quite overwhelmed. So I pray that you find routing, and that you can really clearly see what is yours and what isn't, and what can you drop and what is information that is really, truly coming from the source. My because we have so many so many things are out there, right where we can get information from. So that's first and then second, when we speak about ascension symptoms and ascension. There are so many different things online about this. And I don't believe there is one ultimate truth about anything. So even what I say today, I wouldn't have set this probably two or three years ago. And maybe in a year time if you asked me the same question I might be not in agreement with my today self. Right? Because I believe this is we give words to things that we sometimes don't have words for I think our evolution is going in a pace that we aren't understanding the invisible. We understanding the unseen space so much more, but our language is just not catched up yet.
Natasja Pelgrom 48:36
So I think some words we give to one thing, that the same word to five other things. So yeah, absolutely. That's the first thing also for people when if maybe this is the first time you're hearing about that word, and you go into this thing and you go like, Oh, I have all these ascension symptoms. So I always say it's not something outside of yourself down again, give your power away to Google. You are experiencing you might be picking up on something that is an external trigger, but it's still something also inside of you. Right? So if we're gonna in the invitation is stepping out of duality, stepping out of victim aggressive stepping out of polarity, that's always the invitation. So if something is happening from outside, what is it say about me? What is it that is inside of me happening? Always do the inquiry back to yourself? So that is you know, I want to was put that little disclaimer because, yeah, it's that outside story is confusing for so many people who might also have certain mental health diagnosis who then read spirituality, right becomes a bypass, not naming that at certain diagnosis can also be an opening for certain awarenesses.
Natasja Pelgrom 49:51
That's a whole different story that I don't know enough about, but there are some quite interesting research about having psychosis and people being in a trance states that the same places of the brain light up. And the same places we go to there was this round where there's still so much to be discovered. And if people with those abilities that might have been diagnosed grew up in a tribal sense, they might have been seen as a healer or two spirited individual.
Tonya Papanikolov 50:20
I also just want to say that I so appreciate it. Like it's so nuanced, right? And so you had the ability for you to like, share that message and let people know that is so important. And I really appreciate that because it's so true. It's very
Natasja Pelgrom 50:34
nuanced and bypassing tends to happen in any shape or form. I've done it and all the shapes and forms to I'm still doing it spiritual ego is part of your evolution, too. I don't see it as something separate. I think everybody comes at some point at some stage at a spiritual awakening at in a spiritual ego. I think it's just part of the process. But that's a whole different topic. And I want to honor your question, you know, about ascension. So first of all, many different meanings, right. But what I would like to say is you have ascension, which there is a lot of information out there on the Earth's ascension, which I don't know out of my own experience, both from those that I trust, for example, Hero are just spoken about Inelia Benz isn't a great source to look into who speaks a lot about ascension that I personally resonate with.
Natasja Pelgrom 51:27
And it's about really the ascension of the Earth that has already happened. It's already there. I don't believe the Earth needs to be saved. I think she knows exactly what is going on. Again, I don't believe in victim aggressor savior. Role, all polarity, you know, like anything that pulls me into that direction, pulls me out of love state. So I'm always looking, is this pulling me into separation? Not diversity separation is the word or is this pulling me into love because I look at the Earth being already ascended, and she knows what she's doing. I'm looking at it from an empowered place. Why I'm not looking that she needs stop saving doesn't mean I don't need to be conscious of our environment and how I use the earth. And respect to Europe. It's not a freebie Do not be conscious with earth right in our planet. So that's speaking into ascension from an earth perspective. And what I'm most about is, for example, speaking into spiritual ascension,
Natasja Pelgrom 52:25
I believe it's part of a spiritual awakening. Ascension is part of an awakening process. It's an awakening where there is an old self and your rebirth into a new self spiritual ascension is also a way of being rebooted or upgraded. Well, what we're definitely not is you're not a level higher than anybody else. Because that's the system we grow up in, we still still tend to look at things from a pyramid perspective, this is it's like being elevated vibrationally and your frequency is different. So that means when that happened, that reduced transition space. And for me, I have the similar thing, what you shared about you, for me, those frequency changes, or vibrational changes didn't happen with plant medicine with psychedelics or an entheogenic process. Those happened with deep work on trauma, deep work on transcendent states meditation, even exploring the state of our sensual energy or sexual energy inside of us dose change the frequency change.
Natasja Pelgrom 53:35
And when that happens, it's very interesting because certain things start to change in the outer environment. Like one of the first things I remember observing when my own ascension process, my own vibrational frequency change happened is that certain people don't see you anymore on the street or in a supermarket and a queue, and they just don't see you. And I was like, what's happening here? Like, I'm low, it's my turn, and I would go, but then I started speaking, and this was actually a quality of a shift of change, right, a shift of vibrational change that is happening in the field. So it's like these kind of little, little things that I started observing as patterns happening in field right? spiritual center is definitely not about unicorns and angels, and I don't know what you know, it's actually for a lot of the times it's also called the dark night of the soul. Might you go through an excruciating shift of discomfort and pain, it's almost like an initiation. You know, it's an alchemical process. Well, we just spoke about and it comes and goes in many different stages.
Natasja Pelgrom 54:45
So you have a mental awakening, of course, of course of personality, awakening, you have a spiritual energy process, you have an awakening of the soul. So you have these different aspects that can come up. And for example, A spiritual energy awakening would be a kundalini awakening, a new personality would be where there is a process of self acceptance and empowerment of sovereignty, where you're very pull to work on these aspects of yourself. They don't come all some some of the same time simultaneously. There's different stages for I believe, in my perspective. Again, this is my truth, my way how I've experienced it today, this might be a whole different protocol, or for someone else, but it's a frequency change. And there's also when there is a mind I remember this being 10 years ago, there was an influx of synchronicity. Synchronicity is a mental awakening, suddenly, now synchronicity is just for me a way of living, I don't even need to name it.
Natasja Pelgrom 55:46
My friend and I were were having a friend date, we had a whole day together. And we just started cracking up on how we would get off 15 years ago about synchronicity. And every time it happened, we were texting each other. And now it's just, it's their life unfolds for me that way, like I'm living that way, there's just no other way, the amount of information I dream, or I get, or I know exactly the right moment to reach out to a client that I've worked with six years ago, and I go, like, I need to reach out to her right now. And I said, like, hey, because I carry over medicine, I have a responsibility over that medicine, I don't have responsibility over the individual, but I have a responsibility over the gifts of the medicine. So the people that I'm connected with, and that the seats are blown into their hearts that I bring in and the downloads that I support with the medicine, there is a responsibility.
Natasja Pelgrom 56:45
So I'm connected to all my clients. And I always say spirit is my marketing manager. And spirit is also the one that tells me when to home. So I don't have to be busy all day lighting candles with all my cloth 1000s of brands that I've worked with. But I know that when a name or they come in, that's the moment that's que. And I will tell you, every single time I'm spot on, and it's not because I'm blowing my own horn, no, that's because of the years of the work that I've been doing. I've built so much trust in this muscle that I know, it's like an instant thing. You know, it's an instant thing. So and I don't know why I'm reaching out. It's not that I know that story. And I'm so happy I don't write because that will be way too old in a day, you know, by God this person has. No, that's not necessary.
Tonya Papanikolov 57:37
Sometimes those shifts can just be energetic, it can just be standing next to somebody or hearing their words, and that there is like an innate medicine and just existing in knowing one's own truth, and letting that be a reflection to other everybody
Natasja Pelgrom 57:52
that I would see what is the first thought that comes in. Sometimes we would be really judgmental about there's someone shoes or something stupid like that. And I was like, Oh, interesting. And I would ask, and I would tell myself this little thing, which everybody can use. It's very simple, interesting point of view. Natasha, I would speak to myself. Interesting point of view, Natasha. So what does this say about you? What does this this reminds you of those shoes from that lady that I have a judgment about? And then the first thing that popped into my mind was like, Oh, my God, I was when I grew up. And when I came from Portugal and Spain, I my parents were divorced. And my mom and I were did not have enough money. I could not wear the shoes and the clothes that all the kids were wearing that were more most trendy.
Natasja Pelgrom 58:39
So I was always bullied by the way that I looked. So I was like, oh my god, I'm just having a judgement on this lady's beautiful tennis shoes that she's running on. Because actually, I'm judging from a wonder place. I was like, all poor, you know, you want that's why you have pairs of shoes right now. You know, like, they're almost not anymore. But if we're very long time I had a shoe fetish. Yeah, so I got like, wow, that's a big teaching. That's my teacher, that judgment just became my teaching. So if I can be that, don't have to be a therapist, a space holder or shaman, to be able to change the world, if you can become aware of those processes inside of yourself. And you can then show up to the world in that way. Without that judgment. You're healing. You're healing the world that way. The deepest gift you can give to anybody, that you're not judging them, that you're embracing them for all their humanity and aspects because you understand yours. And then you'll show up differently and people will come to you and say like, Hey, there was something about you. What is that? What is that about you that you know, you go like, well, actually, if you're interested, I do this and this and that. If I can help with his work and support with that, and then it becomes synchronicity living out of city.
Tonya Papanikolov 1:00:07
Yeah. Oh, I love these deep teachings. Thank you. I'm honored to be chatting with you and so grateful to share this message and these teachings with our audience. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I honestly I feel like we could keep chatting and I have would love to have you on again in the future. Thank you. So much gratitude for you.
Natasja Pelgrom 1:00:31
Tonya Papanikolov 1:00:33
With deep gratitude, thanks for tuning into this episode. If you liked it, hit subscribe and leave us a review that is always very appreciated. Mushrooms transformed my mind and body and if you're interested in bringing medicinal mushrooms into your life and health journey, check out rainbo.com for our meticulously sourced Canadian fruiting body mushroom tinctures. Until next time, peace in and peace out friends.
Spiritual journey, spiritual calling, ascension, spirituality, polarity, life, space, teachers, guides, knowing, explore, growth, transformation, plant medicine, Psychedelic Integration, alchemical journey, clair senses, meditation