Why We Need Indigenous Wisdom, Ancestral Healing & Plant Medicine with Dr. Jacqui Wilkins

Show Notes: 

In this soul-rooted conversation, Tonya is joined by Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND — a Naturopathic Doctor, plant medicine person, and teacher, medicine maker, and steward of the Earth. Together, they explore how remembering our relationship with the land, our ancestors, and the plants around us can transform the way we heal and create. Dr. Jacqui shares stories from tending her medicine garden, weaving her Earth-based wisdom, motherhood, and ancestral reverence into a holistic understanding of belonging. This episode is a journey through ceremony, motherhood, and the sacred reciprocity between humans and nature.

You’ll hear about:

• Remembering connection through land, lineage, and plants
• Motherhood as a path of grounding, presence, and identity rebirth
• The art and ritual of crafting medicine from seed to harvest
• Ancestral reverence and working with “well ancestors” in healing
• Deepening relationships with plants through song, dreams, and reciprocity

Connect with Dr. Jacqui Wilkins

• https://www.instagram.com/xalishmedicines
• https://www.xalishmedicines.com/learn
• https://www.xalishmedicines.com/herbalism

Connect with Tonya:

• Follow Tonya on Instagram: @tonyapapanikolove
• Sign up for Tonya’s Newsletter
• Rainbo.com and @rainbomushrooms
• Try Fungki Mushroom Coffee
• Try Fungki Herbal Mushroom Coffee

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Show Transcript:

Tonya Papanikolov [00:00:01]: Hi, Dr. Jackie. Thank you so much for being here and spending this beautiful summer afternoon, a moment of it with me and with us.

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:00:09]: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. It's such a pleasure.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:00:12]: I've been following your work for a few years and I was just saying to you how I've been really excited to connect and I think just share the message of who you are, the work you do, the way in which you do it, and it is all just really, really beautiful. And I'm just so excited to share this story and hear more.

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:00:32]: Thank you. I feel like we've both been kind of in each other's orbit for quite some time. I remember when you were just starting out when I was in Toronto at that time, also following your journey. So it's so sweet to connect.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:00:42]: Oh, cool. Awesome. Well, I love to start every episode in the same way, which is asking our guest, what is something that has put you into a state of gratitude, something that's opened up your heart recently, A story or just something that you're feeling connected to today?

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:01:00]: I love that so much. And as I was sitting and preparing and kind of getting into the space as it is summer and kind of more in that seasonal rhythm of not being as work oriented or focused, I realized that one of my practices before any sort of teaching or speaking or sharing is always connecting back into my heart space. And so I have this like heart song. So it's wild rose and hawthorn flower. And I always have a few drops of that and kind of call myself back into my heart and connect from that space. But also inviting in that presence of speaking from my heart because there can sometimes be nervousness or what are we going to share or talk about or say. And so I always find just moving from that heart space and coming from my heart is the guide as a Leo in Leo season. I feel like it's also my way of being is continually moving from the heart and coming back to the heart. So earlier today, my little one, as I was getting ready, runs in the house and I'm in the bathroom putting on my makeup and he was like, mommy, mommy, look at this. And he had just picked a huge strawberry from our medicine garden, our food and medicine garden. And he was full of, like joy and that sweetness and that love. And then he was like, here, have a bite. Which was also so sweet and so sweet. Strawberries are heart medicines also. They are in the Rose family and so they connect us. So is BlackBerry. So we were gathering BlackBerry last night, also in the Rose family. So, yeah, really sweet.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:02:26]: Oh, I love that so much. So, so much so.

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:02:30]: Lots of heart medicine.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:02:31]: Lots of heart medicine. You know, that really, really resonates. I was just having a conversation with my husband this morning and he was sharing how it really feels like I've gone through this big change. I'm going to share this story and I don't think he would mind me sharing it, but he was just kind of reflecting on this change that he's been going through and that he feels like our shared mission is really just like heart alignment and being in that frequency. So I would echo that. I was also just sitting down. I have some cacao with me and I was just grounding into my heart before this conversation as well.

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:03:07]: I love that. That feels really sweet. All the heart medicine and of course in traditional Chinese medicine, the organ paired with the summer, the season is our heart. And so it's an even more always a potent time, but an even more potent and important time to be really caring for our hearts and tending to them and being in that space.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:03:27]: I love that so, so much. Thank you for sharing that. And will you tell us a little bit about the journey you've been on? You're a naturopathic doctor, you have a thriving garden from the sounds of it, and you put out just incredible education about your lineage, ancestry, connecting to the land, connecting to our food and herbs and medicine. And I would just love to hear what your journey has been to get you here.

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:03:56]: Thank you. I love origin stories and I love hearing people's journeys and often how winding and meandering they can be. So mine was definitely that I began working with the plants from a very young age. Some of my earliest memories were really connecting with the land and with the plants. And so there was a cottonwood tree, tree that was in my parents front yard. And I remember sitting with them and speaking and hearing them speak and sharing stories with them, receiving stories as well as sagebrush and sandstone. And this is a long story, so I'm going to shorten it. But it wasn't until a bit later that I realized kind of that that wasn't a common experience for most or many people, especially my peers. And I didn't have a lot of human elders who were able to really model that for me of really being in that depth of relationship with the plants and with the land. And by that I mean more like hearing and communicating and speaking with them because we always had a big medicine garden and spent time like fishing with my family and connecting in those ways in right relationship. But As I got older, there was a lack of fitting in, I guess, because of these relationships and this way of being with our environment, with the land. And so for a few years, or many years, kind of in my late teens, early 20s, I really was trying to fit into that, I guess, more colonial framework. And I really kind of pushed a lot of that to the side to try to fit in through that. Even still, when I look back, it was always the land and the water. Like, I would go sit outside under the stars and just connect with, at the time, Lake Superior. And that's where I felt I really belonged. And I didn't realize it at the time, but they were always kind of continually guiding me back to my path. So I actually became a makeup artist, which I still love. There's so much adornment and beauty in that and connecting with ourselves, too. But in that journey is when I began having more dreams. And I believe it was my, well, ancestors and the plants really calling me back more loudly. They were like, okay, you need to listen. And for a long time, I really was trying to not listen, which I think many of us can resonate with kind of not listening to those intuitive polls or those sometimes loud, loud pulls. And I felt called to become a naturopathic doctor, as that was one of the only ways that I really knew how to work with plant medicines at the time. Like, I didn't really know what an herbalist was, which I know now seems like, how is that even possible? But this was quite some time ago. And so I went to school for naturopathic medicine. But the relationship and working with the plants, like, making medicines for my family, like, listening to their health stuff and creating formulas for them, that was happening much before naturopathic school. So I feel like it's just always been who I am, and it was more of a remembering versus like a new thing or like a learning that's so beautiful.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:06:47]: And I really resonate with that. I hope many people can, too, because I think there's a lot of shedding that feels like it happens in the process of moving closer to our essence. There's lots of parts that resonate with respect to, I guess, the different forms of communication that happen when I think you're a child and maybe open and susceptible. For me, dream dreams have been my place and space of really connecting deeply. And as I started to ask my family more questions about my ancestors and who they were and just hearing stories. Both of my parents were born in Macedonia. My grandparents immigrated to Canada, and I learned that they were Herbalists. I learned that on my dad's side. My great grandparents were mountain people. And herbalists, like, picked all sorts of different herbal medicines. And so there was this reckoning, remembering process that happens. And I'd also love to. I've been hearing this term a little bit more lately. I think you're really maybe only the second person I've heard say it, but, well, ancestors. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:07:52]: Yeah. So I think there's so much to all of it. And I love that term because really, within our lineages, most of us, if not all, likely have ancestors who have caused harm and who may be still causing harm in various ways, depending on your beliefs, your lineages, how you connect with ancestors. And so there for me, when using that term like, well, ancestors, it's kind of as we're doing this, like, healing work through ancestral repair, ancestral healing, as well as currently in these bodies in this time, we can use the term, well, ancestors, to kind of call in those ancestors who are in that alignment with harmony and with that alignment of love and liberation and harmony with our more than human kin, with the land, the earth. And so it's like this way of being more intentional and being more clear in which ancestors we're working with, which ancestors are we following the wisdom of which ancestors are we following guidance from? And there's so, so much to that. I work a lot in dream time and my dreams as well. And we can have visits by spirits or ancestors that maybe are not giving us the best advice or guiding us in a different way. And there's so much to all of that, too. So that's kind of maybe more advanced for people who are kind of in that realm or working in those worlds and having that protection medicine.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:09:20]: But absolutely, I love that because it's kind of like intentionality around who we're calling in, who we're asking for guidance from or protection from. And I had an experience once where I guess it was my first time really realizing that there can be ancestors present that are holding you back for reasons based on their own fears and not your own. And so there's so many ways that it can show up, I guess.

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:09:48]: Yeah, definitely. And I think that's one of the reasons why lineage repair can be so beautiful and impactful, too, because sometimes we think that ancestors are somewhere else or that their evolution, I guess, stops once becoming an ancestor. But there's so much more as they are of being their present with us also. And so just like us, like our ancestors can evolve and heal and come back into right relationships and all of those things as well. And we can be a part of that, which is really beautiful.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:10:20]: That's really beautiful. Yeah. How has your experience of. I mean, I know this is a really big question, but how has your experience of motherhood shifted and transformed you? Your practice, maybe your view on life, if at all? I imagine maybe a little bit.

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:10:41]: Yeah, that is a huge question and I love it so much. And I have to really think back. My little one is nine now, so not so little, but still little to me. And I feel like when I look back to those early years, there was so much there. I was in naturopathic medical school when I conceived my little one. So between third and and fourth year, going into my clinical internship. And it was very intentional in that I had a ceremony and wanted to be a mother and really called his spirit in. But I didn't necessarily mean, like, right. Right now. So that was a lesson in that intentionality and all of those things. But I guess their spirit was ready to be here too. So that's really beautiful. So there was a lot around that time, and I think it was maybe about a year before that. My whole life have kind of had this tendency of dissociating. And I think many of us who are kind of maybe more connected, more intentionally connected, connected in a different way to the spirit world, to different realms, maybe can relate to this. Of kind of feeling like we're of this world, but not. And sort of this longing, like I've always had this deep connection with the stars and so this longing to go home to a place that I didn't really have a name for. And at the time, I was feeling really, really disconnected from my body and was moving through just a lot, a lot of physical, spiritual, emotional stuff. And I went and connected with a friend who does a lot of energy work, energy healing. And she just reminded me to really find a few things or name a few things, write down a few things that tether me here, like what keeps me here on earth and wanting to stay, to stay here, essentially, which was a big theme at that time. And I wrote down three things, but I remember two specifically. And one was the medicine garden. So tending to the land, tending to the earth, saving seeds, sharing medicines with others, and caring for the land, the flowers, just tending to the earth and the medicine garden and sharing that with community. And the other was becoming a mother. And it was interesting because it was never really on my radar. Like I didn't grow up, like. But that was really clear to me of having a child, being a parent. And so I think having giving birth and having my little one really helped me to tether here in a big way. And I was always kind of like wandering, looking for that, that sense of home and feeling really. Yeah, like that wandering spirit, that wandering soul, like, traveling. And when I had him, I really chose to stay. And by stay I mean like, really physically stay present, but also like stay in one spot a little bit and have like a little bit more roots and really maybe connect even deeper with my lineages, with my body in a different way. And so I feel like becoming a parent, becoming a mother just completely shifted my identity in so many ways in more that it helped me to remember who I truly am and really come back to my essence. And even that, like, childhood inner child spirit of connecting with the land, connecting with the plants. And it's been so sweet supporting his journey of connecting and those relationships with the land and hearing his first words, being like mullen or blue cohosh or plant medicines and saying like, hi and like deepening those relationships. So, yeah, I'm sure there's so much more to it. I'm an introvert too. And so having a child is challenging for being an introvert because you don't really have a lot of alone time, especially if you don't have a lot of support. So that has been one of the challenging aspects of motherhood, for sure, for me.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:14:18]: Yeah, I've often wondered how that happens, especially in the early years. I think that would be one of the big changes. But, yeah, welcomed, but like, definitely not without its moments of remembering, I guess, what life was like before.

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:14:37]: Yeah, for sure. And it's hard to put fully into words, but with another friend, we were discussing this quite a long time ago, but it was like almost like a balancing of needs because we may have certain needs, but our child may have other needs. And sometimes those can be conflicting. And often, depending on what they are, we may have to put our needs kind of to the side. And that can be kind of over time, like a chronic pattern that people may get into which we may need to break that pattern and find different ways of support. But sometimes it just is how it also has to be because there is so much that we pour into being present for especially those first, like three or four years.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:15:15]: Well, I'm sure I'm going to have more motherhood questions for you, but would love to switch gears a little bit to hearing about your process. When I was really reading and doing some research for our chat, I Was, oh, my goodness. Dr. Jackie's like a midwife to plant medicine. Learning about the ways that you, you know, when you're making and creating the medicines that you sell and share with your community and the world, there is an element of ceremony to it. Not only do you grow them, but there's moments where you're singing to them or picking them on full moons. And I would just love to hear about this process for you, and if you can take us to one of those moments.

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:15:54]: Yeah, I love that so much. And I feel like there is such, like, presence is the word that kind of keeps coming through and intentionality. But there is so much presence in crafting plant medicines and tending to the plants. And it's such an important part to me as that really infuses and is felt in the medicines and becomes part of the medicine. So I always say, like, wherever I'm harvesting, like, if I'm out, like, gathering hypericum, there can be different songs that come through. I often will bring my little one, especially for hypericum, as I'm usually harvesting around the summer solstice and ensuring that that lines up. He's usually there with me, which is sweet. So there's songs and offerings are made. And then it's also more than just the plant that becomes part of the medicine, too. And it's our relationship with the environment. So the birds who are nearby, the bees, the spiders, sometimes snake, like, this year has been showing up a lot. And so all of those elements also are woven with the medicines as they're the entire environment. So sometimes we think especially of herbs and plants as, like, constituents in a bottle or that's kind of more of a colonial way of looking at them. But they're a full being, and the entire environment and all of their interrelationships are woven in the medicines. And so the process really begins if I'm growing the medicines from seed and it goes, like, all the way through harvest. So there's so many different points of connection and love and prayer poured into the medicines from the moment they're started as seeds in ceremony of opening the garden in a good way in cerem and calling in ancestors and making those offerings. And that's starting in, like, March here. And then they're tended to and cared for and watered and sung to throughout the entire growing season until they're harvested again in that ceremony. So really, for me, the whole process is ritual and is ceremony, and there is that presence and deepening of relationship and reciprocity through the entire process, from seed to harvest we do work with some local farms too. And so I like to go, if I'm able to, and visit the medicines there and have good relationship with the people who are growing, the farmers who are growing, and then also visiting the plants and making offerings to the plants before I harvest and deepening those relationships. And sometimes I'm trying to think of like the whole. That's so expansive, but I'm trying to narrow to like one medicine. But dreams too, as you were sharing about dreams, sometimes a formula will come through being on the land. And maybe that night I'll have a dream where the plants kind of come to me and show me kind of a connection or a formula that maybe I wouldn't have thought of otherwise. And so that is also another kind of aspect inside of the medicine is like formulating and kind of how those medicines come to be. And I think a lot of it comes down to being in relationship and present with the plants themselves.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:18:48]: Oh, I love that so much. It's such a beautiful process. I'm going to try some of your medicines. I can only imagine the essence of them and the like profound connection that that holds. How else do you. I guess if somebody was looking to connect more deeply with plants, listening to their messages and being in that place of understanding the language, or maybe for some people it's like a theme comes up for them. What would that look like if you were to suggest something?

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:19:18]: There's so much there. One of the courses I teach, Exploratory Herbal Mentorship, we really delve into this because it's something that really helps us to connect with our intuition as well. So not only are we opening our ability and perceptions to the plants and our more than human kin, the water, the sun elements, but we're also deepening our ability to hear ourselves and our, well, ancestors, our spirit. It's like this whole world opens up or like a remembering. And so really one of the kind of easiest or maybe most simple ways is just through spending time. And so our relationship with plants really is like any relationship we have with other humans, for example, example, in that the more time we spend with them, the better we get to know them, right? And the more that they're also open to sharing with us and so greeting them, asking permission, making offerings, those types of things, and then just spending time with them. So I might suggest like choosing or having a plant choose you, like whether through dreamtime or a plant that kind of keeps coming up or that you just feel called to connect with and kind of making those initial offerings of Asking to connect and then aiming to connect with them as much as possible. And that can look so many different ways. Whether that's like working with them through a flower essence or through just sitting with them on the land, through growing them, just through dream time and really just being open. Because I find sometimes there can be frustration and that, like, we may expect to hear something immediately. Like, we may expect, okay, I'm going to spend five minutes with Yarrow, and Yarrow is just going to tell me all of these stories. And it's just going to be so clear. And that's often that's not how it goes. Well, maybe for some people, but often it's not how it goes. And it takes more time and also learning, I guess, like, how we receive information for some, like, it may be like a feeling or, again, a dream or songs or colors, and we may sort of like, piece together the information over time. We get little bits here and there. But the more kind of time we spend, I find the more that that process reveals itself and opens. And when we keep kind of like that open heart and that curiosity, there's more space and not kind of getting into our heads and being like, oh, no, I just made that up. Because that's. I find what a lot of students or a lot of people I work with also do is like, oh, no, I just made that up. And so sometimes when we share our stories. So that's another thing in exploratory herbal mentorship is we share those stories because then we can see that other people experience the same thing without necessarily reading about the plant. And then it kind of affirms our own intuition and our plant spirit communication, too. So having a friend to kind of do this with or a community can also be really, really supportive.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:22:07]: I love that. Yeah. It's funny sometimes, I guess, the way the logical mind kind of butts in and is like, that was a thought. No, that was your intuition. And like, it is sometimes beyond logic. I think everybody definitely has a different experience of it. But, yeah, like a trusting process, a process to really going slow has been my experience with it. I was going to say something else about something you mentioned. Was there a plant for you that got you started or really kind of called to you at the beginning?

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:22:41]: Yeah, I think for me it was cottonwood, and they've always been kind of the one. So along with the heart song and the heart medicines, I always massage some cottonwood balm over my heart and on the soles of my feet to just, like, ground and come into my Heart space and open up those channels of communication. So they were the tree kin who I first began speaking with as a really young child. And then when I was in naturopathic medical school, I still hadn't kind of pieced together that the plants really called me to that path. And I was really kind of confused because I didn't really want to be, like, a doctor. So I was like, I don't kind of fully understand, but I knew that's where I needed to be. And so there was, like, a series of events that cottonwood really kind of came through and helped me remember so much. It was just like they lifted this, like, veil of remembering that I had been trying to forget or kind of push away for so long. And so I would say cottonwood and probably yarrow has taught me so much in that when I first started connecting with Yarrow, I didn't feel a strong connection. And that can happen with plants, too. And sometimes people can question that and begin to doubt themselves or question themselves, which is so understandable. But it took me, like, a couple of years of really kind of spending time with them to really deepen that relationship. And they really, I guess when you kind of mentioned slow, they really showed me that process of moving slowly and building that trust and that connection.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:24:09]: Yeah, that reminds me, I feel like Rishi, for me, has been a really big master plan. And the first interaction I ever had that really, like, swept me off my feet, where I was really, like, humbly, like, a veil lifted. And I really had never experienced anything like that with a natural plant or mushroom before. So that makes me think of that experience I first had. I would love to hear a little bit about your lineage if you would share with us what halish means and your connection to these roots. And was that present for you as a child when you were growing up?

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:24:53]: Yeah, that's such a big question topic, too. So I'm Yakima mixed. I'm also Irish and Eastern European. So halish means wolf in Echishkin, which connects us to the stars. So wolf has always been so present. And I love that this conversation is calling in, like, being a parent, being a mother, and the stars. There's been all of these kind of themes coming through. And when I was pregnant and calling in my little one. Wolf has always been so present my whole life, but especially preconception and during pregnancy and postpartum. Wolf medicine was so strong in so many dreams about wolf. And of course, I've mentioned the stars and the cosmos and that remembering and feeling a Sense of belonging and remembering who I am when I look at the stars and when I connect with the stars, which I would often do growing up and into my teenage years and 20s and all of that. And so halish means wolf, but also connects us with the stars. And so really, to me, that embodies the wolf medicine, wolf energy, as well as our connection with the stars and the cosmos, that remembering of who we are and who we're here to be, those responsibilities as well. And so I'm also Irish and Eastern European. I did grow up knowing who I am, which I'm so grateful for. My maternal grandmother grew up on the Yakima Reservation, and I spent most of my time. If I wasn't with my parents, I was with her and my aunts as well. So they watched me in the summer and lots of beautiful memories, spending time with them and cousins and all of the things. But there definitely was remembering similar to coming back to the plants. I feel like they're. And coming back to the land in those ways, coming back to myself, really. They're very interwoven. And so it was all kind of happening and also becoming apparent. It's all kind of woven within, I don't know, like an expansive period of time, but also happening at the same time, together over time. And. Yeah, so I feel like there's so much there. I don't know where to take it from there.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:26:54]: It's really beautiful. I really love the way you have woven in these parts of your story and your ancestors into the work you do and finding that depth of connection, like, really caring about that depth of connection, because I think so much of it has been lost. And there's memories that can be remembered, but some are lost in time. Some have been erased. So many have been erased. And so I just think there's so many ways for people to connect, I suppose, with who their ancestors were, something that I love to do. I asked my parents for all of their full names, and a friend of mine shared that she does this. And I just loved the practice that I'll do every once in a while, which is just saying their names out loud and keeping that current alive and keeping that memory alive. And especially with my grandparents now, I lost one recently. And so I think these stories are very important to share and to hear.

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:27:53]: Yeah, I think so, too. And there's again, a presence that comes too, right. Like, as you are sharing, like, saying their names, it's like we're calling them into remembering and into presence. And so for me, I always say, like, I feel closest to my ancestors when I'm on the land. So fishing. I used to go fishing a lot with my grandma, my maternal grandma, or garden a lot with my paternal grandmother. And I feel that so deeply that our practices that we have with the land, with the earth, with the water, really call our ancestors to be present if we're tending to those relationships. So again, our relationship with our, well, ancestors, similar to our relationship with the plants and the land is just like our relationship with humans, you know, different, of course, but also it requires attending to a presence, a commitment to being into showing up and caring.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:28:41]: I resonate so much with. When I was a kid, I used to just dream of the stars, like different systems and modes of transportation that I would use to get around. And I have really specific memories of like inter transitory places in the universe that I would like to travel to. So when you say feeling that sense of home, I think there's probably so many people that relate to that. And I felt like just a nail on the head of like being from here but not of here. I love that.

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:29:14]: Yeah, there's so much to that too. But I think many of us do feel that, especially those of us who aren't really here to fit and who are here to create change and to bring those changes forth, probably really feel that a lot.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:29:27]: So, switching back into some motherhood questions, I guess, what does your naturopathy practice look like with clients? And I'd love to hear about supporting mothers, whether it's preconception or postpartum. What does that look like in your practice?

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:29:44]: Yeah, so right now I'm not seeing patients. I'm full time teaching plant medicines and courses. I love it so much. And also making medicines and running halish medicines, tending to the garden, all of those things which require a lot of capacity. So I'm not seeing patients currently, but I am a postpartum doula. And when I was seeing patients and clients, I often did a lot of preconception, pregnancy and postpartum work. And it's something that I still love supporting. Like, people will email me sometimes and ask like for halish medicines, recommendations for like postpartum or for preconception. So a lot of our medicines are still rooted in supporting people through that journey of becoming and rebuilding during postpartum time. And they are such potent times. Like we are so open during that time, especially postpartum as all of our energy centers. So I've had dreams after giving birth of like all of our energy centers, just being completely open and just being A time of being a little bit more vulnerable as well as we just called in the spirit and birthed this spirit through our bodies, through our beings, which gives me goosebumps like it's potent. It's potent. And so postpartum is a time where really oftentimes we're rushed through it. And there's so much that we can do during that time to really tend to ourselves or be hopefully cared for and tended to by others. But we don't all have that. And so there's things that we can put into place during pregnancy to ensure we're cared for during postpartum. And especially like with plant medicines and other things such as avoiding cold foods and things like that. But really this helps us to rebuild during a time where we're really open to receiving. So I found that it's an opportunity or a potential to actually, I don't always love the word heal, but to heal or re pattern or harmonize wounds, illnesses, symptoms that we may have been carrying for a long time or even through our lineages, because it's a time where we are really open to receiving. And so I find that if we can care for ourselves or be cared for during that postpartum period, it can actually support us during our journey as a parent. And we can be more vital, present with our children. And then also during perimenopause and menopause. And often people aren't really thinking about menopause when they're just giving birth, usually. But when we care for ourselves and rebuild during that postpartum time, it can actually support us to have an easier transition and easier experience. Once we reach that other huge transition time, which is perimenopause and menopause and going back to preconception. It can be so supportive to care for ourselves and especially working with plants, working with certain foods to prepare for, also spiritually to prepare for calling a baby or a spirit in which can also support the pregnancy. It can support the baby, the child being more vital, and then also support our postpartum so that we'll have an easier. I don't want to use that word easier, but a more easeful time in postpartum as well. So that preconception piece is one that I find a lot of people really miss. And they just kind of are like, okay, like, I'm going to try to conceive, if that may be, and miss that whole kind of preparation time, which is to me, an important one. And it's not. I mean, I didn't have it. I wish That I did, I didn't. And with my first, I had another and had a miscarriage. And so for me, that postpartum time often gets missed of people don't really see miscarriage or other pregnancy loss as a postpartum time, but it really is. And it opens us to those opportunities of reharmonizing, re patterning or healing as well. So. So that time I did have more time to prepare, but there's so much to it all.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:33:33]: Thank you for sharing that. What does it look like in, I guess if you can think back to pre children and there's, I don't know if I want to say, an abundance of time. There's like life is full at most stages likely. But what does it look like when you do have a child and there's less time. Like we were talking about that peace around having less time for yourself. There's another being that you're taking care of and there's still a lot you're processing as your own human and so much you're learning. And for me it's like at this stage in life it's like, okay, well I can go and journal or take a little bit of time for self care to sit and be like, oh, this emotion is coming up. How can I work with this right now? What does that look like for motherhood? Is it kind of just on the go? I know that it's so impossible to describe that for every single person.

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:34:21]: Yeah, I love that. It has been one of the biggest challenges for me, I would say as someone who is more introverted and needs a lot of alone time and also having that relationship with the land and the plants because you're also receiving like communication and input and stimulation from the land. And so that has been challenging. I used to kind of wake up slowly and journal and maybe put some food on for later and do stretch, maybe go for a run. There was just more spaciousness and to move. Like for me a big theme is moving within our own rhythms and rhythms of the land, the sun, seasonal rhythms. And when there's a child there, you also are moving within their rhythms if their rhythms. Like my little one is very high energy, so he's an Aries and really like go, go, go. Abundant energy, which is beautiful. And I'm more like, let's move slowly. And so I think there's ways. And of course, yeah, everybody's different but in different stages, right? There's like kind of the newborn toddler and then kind of going like six to nine is very different, but kind of cultivating those practices, of inviting them in. So this morning, like, I put on a record, I burned some smoke medicines, I made my warm drink, made him something, and was like, okay, let's just have a little bit of time. And that may last for like a minute versus a half an hour to an hour. And so we can kind of call them into our rituals, too. And they may be received or they may not always be received, But I think for me, it's also showing them how we can move within our own rhythms. And then, of course, if we're able to carve out an intentional time for ourselves, which for me, during my moon time, since this is just one example, but since my little one was like, really little, I would say this is like quiet cocoon time. I need a little bit of quiet energy. So if you're going to be kind of like, coming in, come in. Because, like, maybe I'm in my bedroom or something, like a quiet space. It would be like, just come in, like, a little bit more gently, you know. And so kind of also, it's opportunities, I think, to teach about honoring our bodies and honoring our rhythms and honoring one another's needs and capacities too. But, yeah, we still sometimes need to carve out times where we may have. And also, like you said, kind of moving moment to moment. So cultivating a capacity for being open to things not going how we want them to go or how we envision them going. And that's a really big one of being present and allowing space for what is, Instead of trying to fit things rigidly into how we want them to be or how we think they should be. And creating space for ourselves to have that nourishment, too, which can come through plant medicines, food, maybe care, having someone else step in, if possible, if we have that and care for them for an hour or two while we go and do whatever we may need to do, or 15 minutes, whatever it may be, depending on the season, that really resonates.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:37:15]: And I love the invitation, I suppose that that invites little ones to understand the world around them, understand the needs of maybe, like, just the beauty of what that may teach somebody about women. Like the cyclical journey of women every month, you know, And I think all of it's just such a beautiful invitation to share with your child the different dynamics that are at play, Whether that's like a little prayer before a meal or the walk in the garden that teaches them about these little pieces that I think would be. I'm thinking about myself as a child and like, oh, that Would have been so cool. Will you tell us a bit more about your garden? Has it grown every year? What has that entailed?

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:37:56]: Yes, I love that so much and I love tending to the medicine garden and the plant plants. So we moved to so called Vancouver island about three and a half years ago and had to completely restart. So back in so called Ontario we had a huge expansive medicine garden and a lot more. The soil is just completely different, the growing conditions are completely different. So we had just a huge, huge space and now we're mostly growing in raised beds and in pots. So like on the balcony as we're right near the water and so it's like bedrock and it's not the same. And this also won't be a forever home for us to deepen into in that way. So the raised beds are beautiful though and I've been loving tending to them and learning, learning kind of more of tending to the plants in the raised beds. And we grow a mix of fruits and food as well as plant medicines. Some are perennial, some are annual. So it kind of just depends year to year how the garden is looking and the environment. This year we have watermelon coming up. Our squash is not thriving, so we will see how that does. We have the corner getting really big yarrow and cosmos. And we planted a huge poppy field as I love California poppy. So we planted a huge California poppy field and the hops are just flowering. So there's so much always happening in the garden. And I love going first thing in the morning and saying hello to all of the plants and waking up with them and just seeing how everyone's doing, caring for them. But it definitely has been a big shift anytime we kind of move. And then there's that grieving too of leaving. Our move was one that was more forced during a time where we weren't able to move a lot with us. So there's also that grieving of the plants and the medicines that we weren't able to bring with us as well. But yeah.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:39:37]: Is so called Ontario more conducive soil wise to bigger gardens or.

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:39:43]: Yeah, where we were, the soil is really abundant and like rich, fertile, beautiful soil. And where we are now it's more like bedrock. And so even the trees, trees we had. This is kind of a tangent, but some big Douglas fir elder tree kin, and they're like huge, like so tall in a storm just completely get knocked over and I mean they're like huge, huge. And it's because the roots aren't able to go as deep so because of the rock, they're kind of a little bit more on the surface. And so the soil there is definitely different. And at the growing seasons, which I love how our bodies align with the different seasons depending where we live too. And how our bodies actually change and shift depending on where we live to align with the seasons. Like here, Calendula will continue blooming into January, whereas where we were before, after the first really, really hard frosts, they would be done. It's always so much learning and beauty there.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:40:40]: I cannot wait to have a garden. We've been moving around a lot, but we're now in one place and I think I feel very ready to tend to even a small raised bed and really just kind of cultivate the green thumb that I know is just laying dormant. Yeah, but I always talk to the trees anytime really, but especially when I'm driving. For me, trees have always felt like really, really strong communicators. I've had just so many experiences, experiences with tree. I would love to hear about your relationship with fungi and mushrooms and what that looks like for you.

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:41:20]: Yeah, I love that. I was wondering if that might come up.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:41:23]: Yes, yes, absolutely.

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:41:25]: Yeah, I love them so much and it's so beautiful. Right now I'm thinking of this memory of connecting with turkey tail. I love so many and work with so many different mushrooms, but turkey tail are just really coming up strongly and just being out on the land in so called Ontario and they would be like just so abundant and that medicine of interconnection and caring for one another and how they teach about those life cycles and that ties in so perfectly to as we're talking about like birth and parenting and preconception and then also the end of life cycles and how when we're going through that portal, a part of of who we were is no longer always a part of who we are. But we're also shedding and becoming and integrating. And so I love turkey tail specifically was a mushroom kin that really taught me a lot about those life cycles like life birth, death cycles and how to honor all of them and also re patterning. So for me a big ancestral medicine and helping re pattern certain ways of being that may not be in harmony or may not be in alignment. Alignment. So there's so many that I love working with. But turkey tail are really coming through birch polypore. So it's funny that turkey tail does grow or is around here, but not as abundant as in so called Ontario. Those are a few of my favorites and they are in some formulas too And Rishi as well. I love them so much. And again connecting with that heart medicine. So they're in so many formulas. Because so many formulas that I make really are at the root still connecting us to our hearts. Even if they may be for like immune or cortisol or helping us navigate stress or things like that. There's still that heart medicine in there too.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:43:13]: I love, love hearing that they are such deep connective energy. The our mushroom allies and turkey tail. The most abundant, the most abundant mushroom in all of so called North America. And it is everywhere. I love seeing it down in California too because where I am is like a desert here pretty much. So I'm always really happily surprised when I at least run into a mushroom. Thank you for sharing that. I would love to hear a bit more about. I guess just a couple things. The cycles and how you have adopted cyclical. A cyclical experience of time and life both in your year, in your month. And then that will lead me to one other question after that about the heart medicine.

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:44:01]: I think in working closely with the earth, it almost like naturally, naturally attunes us. If we're so attuned to the earth's rhythms, the earth's vibration, the sun, the moon, which we are, or I am when making plant medicines, when growing plant medicines, when caring for them and crafting them, I'm very intentionally attuned with those energies. And so I think naturally for me anyway, my body, because there's so much of an intentional presence and daily care, daily interaction, daily connection that it just my body and my spirit and my way of being just kind of naturally has attuned with those seasonal cycles and those seasonal rhythms. And so for me it would almost be like I would have to resist against that. And where I find that is through colonial kind of programming. And especially this idea of being productive and being on all of the time. And so for me that's where I really feel like this pushing against the natural way of being for me of like that honoring earth time versus kind of colonial time and moving more in harmony and rhythm with creation. And. And I think making seasonal medicines also helps me attune because we have seasonal launches for the medicines. And so in the fall time we're working with different plant medicines who may be abundant versus maybe like in the high summer or even in the winter. And so that also kind of helps to attune I think also having that connection with our moon time, if we have one, can also be potent. But I also teach in grow your own medicine actually. So it's kind of more of like a gardening medicine making course of attuning with the moon. Even if we don't have a menstrual cycle, we can still kind of connect with like moon time through presence. And a practice of, like, you can choose, like, maybe each new moon or each full moon. Those are kind of easiest for most people. We just notice. And so a lot of the practice is really noticing and just being open and noticing how we are, how the land is. Is even a simple practice of noticing where the sun is at the same time every day. Or it could even be like every month or every season. Even that simple thing of just noticing. We just take so much for granted. And I think people often like the environment is something that's out there. And we forget that we are nature and that we are part of our environment. And so we don't even sometimes pay attention to those little cues which are really huge about how the sun is moving or where the Big Dipper is, is during each season. And so even watching the sun's movement on the horizon going out at the same time each season and noticing, like, where is the sun on the horizon? Is it higher, is it lower? And just kind of tracking ourselves in relationship to our environment helps to really root us into being able to move with the seasons, which impacts our entire life. Our bodies as our cortisol and our circadian rhythm, we know, is tied to. To these rhythms and to these seasonal shifts. And so there's so much, like clinically that we could go into with our neurotransmitters, our hormones, and how that helps us not only spiritually and emotionally, but also a physical level can help us harmonize our bodies too.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:47:15]: I love that so much. That kind of reminded me, as you were speaking, that it's almost like homeopathic in a way, where all that's needed is the gentlest of imprints. And just like one walk past a fragrant bush. So like every little part of the day is getting like, whether we're aware of it or not aware of it, is getting imprinted. And then it's also like a macro dose of the whole entirety of the environment in that sense too, where we're just a part of it. And it just kind of reminded me of that, as you were speaking, where it's like, it just becomes, I think when you're choosing to live in this time type of way, it becomes something that's automatic because we are just a reflection of our environment getting back to tuning into it. And the regulation maybe that can happen that our bodies feel, whether that's our hormones or circadian rhythm. And I guess with the heart medicine of the summer, what are some of the things that get us out of our hearts, like, on a daily basis? What is your kind of experience of that or take on that? Is it really kind of an awareness piece or the mind that gets in the way of that sometimes?

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:48:30]: That's an interesting question. I don't know that I often think of it that way. I usually think of, like, practices to. Or plant medicines to come back into our hearts or to kind of come back to ourselves and to maybe even ease or heal our hearts after loss or grief or just living right now. And so even that answer, actually, I think there's so many things that can. Can break our hearts. And sometimes there can be almost a fear, and sometimes it can be a very valid fear of if I let my heart, like, even brings tears to my eyes right now, if I let my heart fully break, how am I going to continue? How am I going to continue? And maybe that's responsibilities that we have, maybe that's bills that we have to pay. Maybe that's parenting, Maybe that's whatever it may be, like a meeting that we have, like, if we let our hearts fully feel, feel the spectrum of the beauty that exists here, the joy even. Because we often close ourselves to the joy. If we're closing ourselves to other aspects of our hearts, we're closing ourselves to the beauty and the joy, too. So if we allow our hearts to be fully open to all that is, I think there can be a fear of how are we going to continue, how are we going to function sometimes. And so that can be in the mind, but I think that can also be in the body. So in traditional Chinese medicine, that can be even like in our kidney meridian. So as naturopathic doctors, we also study traditional Chinese medicine. And so there's different emotions and organ systems that can kind of come into play there. And so not only, like, our mind kind of having that fear, or our mind just, like, being so preoccupied with other things that maybe don't really matter. And I think that's a big part of it too, is really distilling and getting clear on what truly matters to us and to us as a collective and to us as individuals. And I think when we go through a big loss, like my father passed just a couple years ago suddenly and unexpectedly.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:50:24]: Sorry.

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:50:25]: Thank you. And also birth and becoming a parent, I think those experiences can teach us a lot about what really is important. And then that can kind of help create boundaries or clarity when our minds maybe start to wander and think about this and this and these things that aren't really that important, we can be reminded and come back into our hearts. So I don't know if that fully answers the question.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:50:50]: It does. I love that answer so, so much. Makes me just think that we're actually, like, this is the root of where we are inherently the beating, the beat that keeps us alive and part of our bodies. And I like the way that you said that right at the beginning of, like, not really so much thinking it of it as being somewhere else, but coming back to just the, like, opening of this place. And I think it's so easy for me to relate to that feeling of the fear of, like, what happens if I feel that? What happens if I really let myself feel this for humanity, for whoever, myself, for each other? What will happen?

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:51:31]: I think it's a very valid question too, Especially for people who are highly sensitive and who do feel deeply. And I think that's where these practices in our relationship with the land and the earth, like, one of the practices that I have is really letting the land hold me, letting the plants hold me, letting the water. Like, thankfully, I can go for a swim in the ocean or the river and allowing myself to feel it all. Also giving myself the grace to not be on. And it's not always possible, of course, but where it is possible, I think allowing each other, giving each other the grace and compassion of being however we are in the moment is such a profound gift that we often don't give one another for a variety of reasons, Especially operating within these colonial systems. But really, if I'm in it and having a really hard time, just allowing myself, like, really, truly going outside, even in an urban park, if I'm not able to get outside, maybe just looking through the window and connecting with a tree and allowing the land to hold me as I hold it all. Because I really think our hearts have the capacity to hold it all when we know that we're held too.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:52:42]: That's so beautiful. Thank you. The grace. I often call it that, too. Like those moments, the moments of grace, where maybe it's a big emotion that is coming through, or the opening that causes tears or whatever. For me, that's often an experience, but it does really feel like grace is of the heart. Thank you so much for your time today and sharing your outlook and your stories and your medicine with the world, which is physical and in your presence and essence. And just such a beautiful conversation with you. Today that I'm so grateful for.

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:53:21]: Thank you also it was so sweet. So nice to connect and share.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:53:24]: Yeah, we're gonna link your hellish medicines and some of the courses that you do. How else can we connect with you?

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:53:32]: That's wonderful. I have exploratory herbal mentorship is coming up on the Equinox so I'm really excited for that. And I think just mostly through Instagram I am not as consistent in the summer as presence and tending to the land calls and time with my little one. But Instagram on among the wild flowers or Halleesh medicines I post there. They're very different. Similar but different also. And just through the website. Yeah, those are kind of the main ways an email if you feel called is always lovely. I love connecting and you know those personal connections and hearing. Yeah, yeah. So that's also sweet.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:54:07]: Well, thank you, thank you, thank you. So, so loving this conversation.

Dr. Jacqui Wilkins, ND [00:54:12]: Me too. Thank you so much.

 

Keywords:

plant medicine, ancestral healing, medicine maker, herbal medicine, motherhood and spirituality, well ancestors, nature connection, heart medicine, medicine garden, wisdom of Earth based practices