Letting Go to Grow: Jesse Israel on Endings, Identity Shifts & Embodied Leadership
EP 48

Letting Go to Grow: Jesse Israel on Endings, Identity Shifts & Embodied Leadership

Show Notes: 

 

In this heart-opening episode, Tonya is joined by Jesse Israel, founder of The Big Quiet and leadership coach, for a deep dive into emotional mastery, somatic healing, and redefining success from the inside out. Jesse shares his journey from music industry burnout to guiding mass meditations with Oprah—and the powerful lessons he’s learned about navigating endings, identity shifts, and trusting what’s unfolding. Together, they explore the new wave of wellness that goes beyond mindfulness, the somatic practices that release stuck emotions, and why vulnerability and authenticity are the new markers of true leadership. This is an invitation to soften, unlearn, and expand into the next version of you.

 

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favorite podcast platform. 

 

Topics Covered:

  • Jesse’s journey from MGMT’s record label to mass meditations & Oprah tours
  • How somatic healing and emotional release deepened his leadership
  • The shift from "Wellness 1.0" (mindfulness) to "Wellness 2.0" (deep emotional work)
  • The identity grief that comes with ending a successful chapter
  • Practices for managing anger, anxiety, and triggers in real-time
  • Tech boundaries and phone habits that protect creativity & presence
  • Why vulnerability (from the scar, not the wound) builds authentic connection

Guest Info:

Connect with Tonya:

Resources:

 

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Show Transcript:

Tonya: Good morning, Jesse. Thank you so much for being here and I was just expressing my excitement for this episode and podcast and conversation with you, and it's just the best way to start a Friday. So thank you for your time. Thank you for being here.

Jesse: Thank you for having me. I've told you this before. I love your podcast and it's an honor to be on.

So really looking forward to the convo.

Tonya: Thank you so much. So I am really excited to dive into a lot of, you know, when I saw the big transition you made at the end of, I mean, summer of last year, I guess it was now, I was just like, I'm gonna have him on. Gotta hear about this, we've gotta talk about this.

Anytime I have pivot related conversations on the podcast as well, there's always so much interest in that. And we're also this generation, you know, of people that have so many iterations of our identities and our careers. So I think the way you did it was so graceful. But I wanna back up even further and hear more about kind of the evolutions of you and all the things you've moved through.

But I love to start episodes with just grounding into something. We're both grateful for this morning. So what are you, feeling blessed and grateful for? I

Jesse: just started working out of this new space with some of my friends. It's called the Lighthouse Campus. It's actually in Venice.

Jesse (2): Cool. It's

Jesse: just opened up, it's like kind like a campus coworking space for entrepreneurs and kind of creators and creatives.

And so a bunch of my buddies and I all joined over there. So I'm seeing my friends. I go in the afternoon, so I'm seeing my friends every afternoon, and this is coming off of three years of working from home and being pretty much by myself all day. And I just feel so grateful to have this space where I can, even though I'm working, just be in the presence of other people daily.

So grateful for it. It just giving me so much life fuel. So that's my gratitude for the lighthouse.

Tonya: I love that. Thank you for sharing that. That resonates. I've also been like. In a bit of a funk with the work from home flow and like, I gotta get up and get dressed and present myself and feel really good about this and I'm, you know, like making efforts to just go out to more meetings, like anything live.

So I love that. It's a really good idea.

Jesse: I'm with you. What about you? Do you share gratitude too?

Tonya: Yeah, I would love to. I was reflecting this week, so I was just mentioning to you that we moved into this place in Topanga and I am feeling incredibly blessed and I was reflecting to a friend yesterday actually that about 10 I.

I think 10 years ago I was leaving a career and embarking on a new one and my soon to be mentor, who is interviewing me for this kind of rigorous role that I ended up getting. And she kind of was like, well, what's your 10 year vision? And I was like, wow, nobody's ever asked me that before. And so I was like, let me sit with that.

And I built out this, a vision board, essentially like a presentation of like, this is my life. At one year, two years, I think it was one five and 10. I looked at that, like I never looked at it again, but I looked at it about two years ago and I was just like 92% of things I had done and I'd never looked at that again.

And you know, moving to California was one of those that I just kind of like totally forgot about. And life happened in those 10 years and had a bit of a moment this week where I was like, whoa, this was, I need to take a moment to just cherish that 10 years ago or however many it was like this was my dream.

And now, you know, life is filled with so many other goals and things that we're striving towards. And just that moment of reflection on I'm exactly where I wanted to be and that's filling me with gratitude.

Jesse: Thank you for sharing that. It's such a important reminder to take those moments to see how far we've come, especially like in a world and in a society that's all about the future.

And like just a constant focus on achieving more and doing more to just to like root down and like, look at my life today and look at what got me here and to like, feel. That sense of pride for who we are and the journey that we've been on. It's such a beautiful practice. Thanks for sharing that.

Tonya: Yeah, of course.

So would love to hear about your evolution. I know you started in music, moved to meditation, and then from kind of the big quiet to the leadership coaching and everything that you're doing now. So can you take us through a little bit of that journey and evolution?

Jesse: Yeah. I started a record label when I was a sophomore at NYU.

My roommate and I signed another college band called MGMT at the time.

Tonya: Oh my God, right? I forgot it was them.

Jesse: Yeah.

Tonya: That's awesome.

Jesse: At the time, you know, they were students at at Wesleyan, well, we were students at NYU, but my roommate's cousin was buddies with these guys and they were making music really just for fun.

They were in a music class and just kind of making songs playfully, but the songs they were making. People on campus at Wesleyan were loving. Actually some footage went viral recently of mgmt.

Tonya: I saw that.

Jesse: Did you see that? Yeah. Yeah. Of them playing songs like Kids for some of their first times for, you know, like 30 Wesleyan kids just going nuts.

But my roommate's cousin was telling us about this kinda like mini sensation that was happening on campus. So my roommate, I, we were like 19, 20 years old. We had no idea what the hell we were doing. I was a film student, but you know, we were like, let's give it a shot. Let's see if we can create a label and help these guys grow.

And we fucked up a bunch and didn't really know what we were doing, but just by taking small steps and continuing to take steps, those small steps eventually led to bigger steps. And they went from those awkward shows on Wesleyan campus to playing in front of hundreds of thousands of people, like the biggest festivals in the world.

And that was a really cool kind of early day moment for me to see that anything's possible if you go for it, if you just take those small steps and see where those small steps can lead. So that was a really cool journey and we formed a record label around the band success and started signing other bands.

And by the time I graduated from NYU in my early twenties, we essentially had a full-time business and we were signing bands, we were throwing concerts. And as our label grew, the frequency of my panic attacks that I was starting to experience were just kind of getting larger feeling and happening more regularly.

And it was weird because like we had this cool young business that was growing and we were young guys and I thought that that's what it was all about. Like if you have something that's successful, especially within work, especially as man that like, I'm good, but my internal world was really shot. I didn't know what burnout was at the time, but I was definitely burning out.

And yeah, I had my mental health challenges and not really take care of myself that that stage in my life. Luckily my dad introduced me to meditation and I just found that it brought me such tremendous relief and it became this thing that I would do often. Especially in the music industry.

You know, I spent a lot of time at, at music festivals and I started doing this thing where, you know, I would kind of peel off on my own. I'd find a quiet place to sit, and I'd close my eyes and I'd meditate in these incredibly chaotic, noisy environments. And there was something really powerful about, you know, getting quiet in these really intense spaces.

And I started to get these little visions of, you know, what if it wasn't just, you know, me or a couple friends meditating off to the side, like, what if the whole festival was silent? Like, what would that feel like? You started getting these downloads and eventually I started to put more energy into organizing group meditations for my peers, mostly from the music industry and from work.

I started organizing these meetups at my Buddy U'S office in, uh, downtown Manhattan. It was cool. The first one was like 20 people, and each month more people were showing up to get quiet in the heart of one of the most chaotic cities in the world. And this community started to build around getting quiet.

And also after we would meditate, we would just kind of check in and share whatever was going on. So it also became a space to get kind of be vulnerable with other people. And it was interesting to do that with people that I worked with because in work life, so much of what we were posting on social media and how we were showing up at business events and you know, in the music industry at parties and concerts, it was all very kind of front facing around our success and our growth and our businesses.

And I was so kind of blown away to realize how many people that I knew from business life when they were given permission to slow down, get quiet, and then honestly share how they were feeling, what they were experiencing, how many people were really hungry. To just open up about their challenges. And it was so interesting to see how many people were dealing with the same challenges, but just had never talked about it.

And that sense of belonging and just validation and healing that was formed through getting quiet and talking about real stuff. So I kind of got this, it was like this lightning bolt that hit me where I was like, I want to be spending more of my energy doing this and facilitating this and wound up leaving my record label and really focusing on building community around getting quiet and having space to connect and talk about real things.

And the big Quiet was born from that. We wound up eventually kind of growing out of my buddy's office space and got invited to do the big quiet on the main stage of the Central Park Summer Stage Festival in New York City, which was so wild to kind of go from,

Tonya: what year was this?

Jesse: This was 2015.

Tonya: 2015. Okay.

Wow.

Jesse: Yeah. It was just so interesting to go from like. Meditating by myself at these festivals to then being invited to guide a mass meditation on the main stage of a festival where thousands of people got quiet. And that kind of like that vision started to come to life. And I remember at that first big quiet at that first like really large one being like, this is what I want to do next.

And for the next many years, almost a decade, I gave myself to building the big quiet. And with the support of a great team and a lot of volunteers and amazing community, the big quiet really took off. And before we knew it, Madison Square Garden was inviting us to do mass meditations in the floor of the arena.

And we were doing 'em in the top, the very top of the World Trade Center. And eventually we started touring and kind of took what I had learned from touring bands and throwing concerts. And the person who became my partner in the Big Quiet Emily Kessler, she used to throw music festivals and manage bands.

So we had this music industry background that we applied to the big quiet. And, just kind of brought it to the world. And we would go on these tours where we would partner with these really iconic places, you know, like the Hollywood Forever Cemetery in la like this awesome airport hangar and, Denver.

And we were just popping around gathering people for these moments of quiet and to catch you up to speed. You know, eventually it was actually when we toured in Chicago, that Oprah's team came and experienced the big quiet and thought it would be something that she would like. So got brought into her camp and you know, before I knew it was touring with Oprah and we were creating a big quiet experience together on her arena tour 2020.

And um, that was amazing just to, you know, be guiding meditations, 17,000 people in an enclosed arena in total silence. I'd never experienced anything like it, so it was pretty cool.

Tonya: Wow. That is such a beautiful story of a vision,you just starting solo at festivals and I really resonate with that.

'cause one of my favorite things is being in groups. Well, first experiencing group consciousness when you're practicing together is so heightened.

Jesse: It's real. Yeah.

Tonya: Truly, truly nothing like it. everybody is lifting each other up in a way that if anybody hasn't tried it, it's really beyond. I always like just gravitate towards like, Hey, let's all get together and just be silent 'cause there's so much information that our nervous systems like start to like, it's like a network, right? Like this thing that starts to happen where we're all like, okay, I can feel safe here. Look at all these strangers. I don't need to talk and I can feel safety in this presence.

That's such a remarkable story.

Jesse: Thank you. And I agree with you. You know, I was at an event a couple weeks ago. It was a big gathering, kind of like industry event in West Hollywood and. It's a ton of energy, a lot of people speaking. I'd had kind of a stressful day and I could feel some social anxiety building up.

It was hard for me to be in the room, so I just left and I found a little chair outside. Everybody was gathering, you know, like 10 feet away. And I just sat there and just took 10 minutes to be by myself and being quiet. And, you know, was reminded that after going from this journey of like doing it solo to then being used to doing meditations with thousands of people and then just coming back to kind of where it all started and just remembering I can create quiet wherever I am.

And that it's always available to us. I mean, it really is if we're willing to, you know, be the person that might look a little weird sitting, kind of staring at the wall when the party's happening 10 feet away. But then, you know, I come back into the party and now, I can actually kind of handle the energy.

Tonya: Have you found that in the process of getting quiet, you have developed a stronger sensitivity to environments? People?

Jesse: I have, and I see this a lot with myself, with friends, with clients. I do believe the more that we take care of ourselves, cleanse our systems, do what we can to enhance our nervous systems, and also just like awaken and build our consciousness that in doing so, there is a sensitivity that comes to it.

I notice that when I'm around groups of drunk people or inebriated people, it's a lot more challenging for me. I've noticed that like noisier environments, I am more sensitive to now. I can handle it and I can move through it without it, you know, throwing me off. But yeah, I do find that I'm more sensitive.

What about you?

Tonya: A hundred percent. I mean, something I've been thinking about lately, I. In a kind of esoteric way is like how much of our own thoughts are truly our own thoughts versus what's really influenced by the collective unconscious, the collective conscious. And I say that just because there's moments where I'll, like, I also love being around people, so it's total balance, but there's moments of entering into the city where there's just this haze of forgetfulness.

That can fall over me. And I had that a lot when I was living in the city a few years ago where I would just leave for two weeks during Covid we were kind of living part-time in nature. And it was just this, like, the more time I spent in nature and got quiet there and tuned into that frequency, the more I noticed the chaos of myself included, of my own thoughts of the quality of my mind when I would go into environments where there was a lot of people and a lot of signals and of all kind flying around.

So yeah, and it's also one of those things where I do really believe sensitivity is a strength at this point. And it's a maneuvering through the world in a particular way. And the more I have really allowed that and accepted this part of myself and also worked with it in a way of just like information receiving it's, and not doubting, you know, that that has really opened up in an interesting way.

Jesse: Yeah, I get that. I think. The more I've accepted that about myself, the more I've just reminded myself to do the practices that I know I need in those moments, even if it's what no one else is doing. Or if I'm on a trip, like a group trip with friends and everybody is kind of like the energy is pushing and building and, and I need to, you know, remove myself to, you know, vocal tone or do a little breathing or you know, put my feet in nature.

As long as it doesn't prevent me from doing what I know I need, then I can charge back up and be there. I found that to be really important. And also, you know, I first started to get really aware of this in the early days of the big Quiet, when the events started growing. I really learned for the first time how empathic I was, like how sensitive I was to groups.

'cause this thing was starting to happen where, you know, we'd have a few hundred people at an event and I could see that there were two people who weren't into it. And all I could focus on were the two people who were on their phones and kind of giggling and rolling their eyes even though the rest of the room was really connecting.

And I would focus so much. On those two people. and eventually when our, events, you know, became thousands of people, I realized it was too exhausting to allow myself to try to make sure that everybody loved it. And eventually I realized you never actually know what's going on with someone.

If it's me, if it's our event, if it's their own shit. And I just kind of had to let go of it, you know?

Tonya: It's always very, very humbling to remind ourselves of that. Like the angry person in the car, like the person with road rage, the person cutting you off like it's, yeah. Through storytelling and really like in the sharing circles where I've really sat being like, holy shit.

Like everybody is going through something so tremendous and it really yeah, builds that sense of compassion and just, it's so easy to judge, but we all have such rich inner narratives and things that we're facing. Yeah, I'd love to hear more about, so what happened in your, you know, with the transition, when did you know that that was coming in and what was that process like for you?

What was it like to move through ending the big quiet, how did you know that that was time? How long did you know before you kind of made that transition and yeah, what was that journey like?

Jesse: There was a series of unexpected events that occurred that led to that. I would say ultimately that led to that, in 2020 after the Oprah tour, you know, five days after the tour ended.

And keep in mind, coming off the Oprah tour, it was like peak career stuff, you know? It there was so much inbound. There was so many amazing opportunities that were lined up for the big quiet and for my work as a speaker. And, you know, I signed with CAA, the talent agency and I was doing commercials and all these exciting brand deals and developing a TV show.

And five days after the last tour stop with Oprah, March 7th.

Five days after the tour stop ended is when the pandemic kicked in and the lockdowns occurred.

And within two weeks I realized this thing we'd been working so hard to build mass meditations we're actually illegal. Like it was illegal to gather a mass when the pandemic kicked in. I know the pandemic threw so many people off course with their careers and with, you know, their own feelings around safety and health.

It was really tough 'cause I went from being with these big groups on tour with Oprah, living with my mom and dad back in my high school bedroom. And it changed things, you know, it changed things. Now it pushed me to think about how else we could do our work and serve people in a time when people really needed mental health support and meditation and mindfulness tools.

But we had only done live events and at that moment we really had to figure out how to help in new ways. So we started getting, you know, focusing more on virtual stuff and it led to other cool projects. You know, got to work with Deepak Chopra and we were doing these kind of global meditations that we were leading together and did some really cool work with Audible, but it did change the nature of what we were doing.

And while this was happening, I got sick with mold poisoning in the house that I moved into in la And the cognitive impact that it had on me put me in this really interesting position where people were coming to me as this mental health sort of wellness mindfulness expert. I'd be invited to go on national TV during the pandemic to talk about how to be well during the pandemic.

And my brain. I didn't know what was happening. My brain wasn't functioning, you know, I felt like I was losing my mind at a time when I was seen as like the mind health, mind strength expert. And that was a really, really challenging moment and for about a year. And I, I know you've been through the mold journey for about a year.

It really, you know, like I experienced imposter syndrome and doubt and just like a level of discomfort and kind of like the feelings of panic that I experienced before the big quiet, before meditating were resurfacing at this sort of peak moment in my career as a wellness figure. It was really challenging and also like the greatest teacher that I've ever had, and it taught me a lot.

Now or later. We can talk more about those learnings. But to answer your question, I think it just changed the nature of the big quiet, it changed the nature of my work. When the pandemic ended and people were able to kind of come back and gather, we went back on tour and we did our thing. But after our last tour in 2022, and it was probably our best tour ever, the experience that I think we were creating with people, it felt good.

But coming off that tour, there was a feeling that was so clear. It was like, I would say similar to that feeling that we get in our gut, you know, that sort of intuitive sense that it was time to take a break. And I shared that with my business partner, Emily, and she was like a hundred percent on the same page.

We didn't know why or what it meant, but we both realized we needed to take some space and just let it breathe. And it felt so good to give ourselves permission to do that instead of doing, the thing that I always did before in my career was to keep pushing. It's always gotta grow. It's always gotta be bigger.

We always gotta scale the next year. There needs to be more revenue the next year. There are bigger goals to hit. And actually what we were saying was. Let's actually just slow it down for a little bit. And that meant saying when people reached out about working together, hey, you know, we're actually not available.

We're taking a break. And kind of people scratching their heads, but we knew we had to honor that and feel that. And we took a year to just do other stuff I had already had my speaking business and I was coaching leaders and public figures and really enjoying that work. So I just kinda was able to focus more on some of these other pieces.

But after that one year break, the start of last year, the start of 2024, I realized that I wanted to kind of face head on that situation because I think it reached a point where I was just kind of ignoring it. It was just kind of sitting there and people would ask about the big quiet and ask what was going on.

And I would say, you know, we're taking a break. But I realized it was time to confront it. And I worked with this awesome transition coach, his name is Steve Schlafman. And we just did a lot of work around my relationship with the big quiet, how much of the big quiet was tied to my identity. You know, so much of.

Who I am and was felt reliant on the big quiet existing and being seen as the founder of it. there was a lot to unpack there. In the year that we took off from the big quiet, I noticed like the inbound opportunities, the people that wanted to work with me, the brand deals, you know, the stuff that would kind of always come in started to slow down.

And that was hard on my ego, you know, I started to feelless relevant, less in demand. But it was interesting because at the same time I was honoring something that I know that I needed to do. So that was an interesting journey. And going into 2024 and doing that work with Steve, it became clear to me that it was complete.

You know, that we had set off on this mission to bring meditation and quiet and community to the world and to introduce it to people in a way that felt accessible and social. And we did that through our events and we did that through content. We did a lot of that work in corporations. And you know, kind of looking back on those 10 years, whatever it was, nine years, I really felt like we served the mission and that the journey of the big quiet was complete.

And it was this interesting feeling of looking back and being like, I'm so proud of what we've done, and it's time to just say goodbye. You know, it's time to like celebrate that journey and let it be complete and open up to what's next. And what really kind of kept coming to mind for me in that process was that, you know, in all things in nature and in life, there's a cycle.

Something's born and it grows and sometimes it blossoms and there's a life that this thing has, and then eventually the cycle of that relationship, business product plant, you know, whatever it might be, comes to a close. And when that cycle is completed. It allows for something new to be born. And what I realized was in that one year of going on the break, it was helpful, but I wasn't really allowing it to be completed so the new thing could be born.

So that's what led my team and I to really start to focus on how do you say goodbye to a business? How do you say goodbye to a community? There's a lot out there on how you launch and how you create and how you get something started, but there wasn't a lot out there on how you thoughtfully complete and ritualize an ending.

Tonya: Absolutely. Right. Because like so many times, endings are so associated with failure of some kind. And it's so rare to hear the story of like, no, this actually just completed its lifecycle. it's such a beautiful thing.and that's also what, resonated so deeply with when you shared it, I was like, wow.

Like. Yes to completing a mission and recognizing that I wanted to also, you know, you mentioned the identities piece and you work with high achievers and founders of all kinds. how do you approach that piece around identities? 'cause I really resonate with that, I relate to that with myself and my own business rainbo.

so I wonder, was there a process for you with the big quiet, where you felt you needed some space, some like your own identity evolving? Was that in that 2020 kind of period or 2022 rather? And what's your relationship to, I guess, that conversation with other, who are really closely identified with the works that they create?

Jesse: I didn't feel like it was something that I needed to explore. I didn't feel like it was, you know, something that I was intentionally looking at within myself. It was something that presented itself to me through my experience of saying goodbye to the big quiet, and it was actually really valuable.

Because, you know, the truth is, I had become known for this wellness movement that, especially in the first half, was really popular and there was a lot of hype around it, and a lot of people wanted to work with us and working with celebrities, doing these great events. And in the second half, you know, as it started to slow down, the pandemic kicked in.

And these changes occurred that I talked about. I noticed that as there was less interest, I found myself feeling less worthy. I found myself feeling like less confident and less proud of who I was as a person. And it was really interesting to be confronted with this. And as it continued to slow down and I really, really committed to making this change, it forced me to really face, actually what came up was sort of the grief around letting go of the person that I was, and maybe the way that I was treated.

By the world. And I had some big cries about that. it was really interesting to really emotionally let out. I went through this other chapter was seen a certain way and I'm perceived differently now, and I was able to, be emotional with that and like have some deep cries.

But on the other side of that, and I think really through allowing myself to feel the emotions of that, I was able to integrate and realize that all those experiences that I had with the big quiet and yes, all the inbound and interest that felt so great, all of that stuff shaped the man that I am today.

And that doesn't change, you know, if the big quiet still exists, if there's tons of interest in working with me or not, it doesn't change the man that I am and how I have formed into the person that I am. And through having some of those emotional experiences, I was able to. Say goodbye to the big, quiet, say goodbye to that chapter of my life, and know that the energy that was created there and just kind of formed into the man that I am, I can bring to whatever's next.

And there was something really powerful about realizing I don't need this popular business or this thing that people really like to feel good about who I am in the world. And that because I am Jesse, I can go out and create whatever I want. and I don't feel reliant on having elements of my business to make me feel good about who I am.

And that was really important for me because I do see, especially with clients and people that I work with, when somebody is creating something new or really like ready for their business to go to the next level and desires it andput in the work for it, but they're not really seeing the changes occur or like that growth isn't happening.

I think that sometimes that happens because the desire to create success or the desire to build the business comes from a place of feeling like it needs to fill a void within ourselves to feel good about who we are. Once my business does this or grows in this way, or makes this much money or seen by people in this way, then I can feel good about who I am or you know, then I'll finally be happy.

And I think that like the desire for success when it really comes from that place of filling a void, sometimes I do believe the greater power of nature will say, ah, we're not gonna give it to you until you learn the lesson. You don't need those things to feel good about who you are. And if we're able to connect with, I want my business to grow because I experienced fulfillment through doing this work, or I want my business to grow because I believe I was put on this earth.

To do this work or because it's of service and I want to do this work to serve people. You know, if the desire comes from that place, then I think what we see how the thing grows is very different. and I think a lot of times it's about coming back to a place of where that desire comes from and reconnecting with it.

Not about being something that fills a void, but is something that's of service or aligned with what we're here to do. That creates the shift for that thing to then grow and take off. But I think we get tested sometimes to be reminded of that. And I do see that a lot I've seen that many times in my own journey, and I see it a lot with my clients too.

Tonya: Yeah, that totally hits. there's something I've worked on with my, I have a therapist who kind of turned into like a business coach and we would always talk about like, being in the energy of wanting, and in that energy of want is also the energy of lack because it means that to want something is to be in the state of lack of what is currently here.

And it's such a human back and forth, right? that experience of like, I want this and being like, right, I have awareness and like I'm gonna just bring it back to like all of these things that are here right now. But, I love working with that too. When I'm like setting a goal or you know, just going on to the next kind of milestone.

It's like really sitting in the energy of like, what do we already have? And how do you cultivate that within a team too, right? It's an interesting experience to have everybody in an organization on the same page of like resonating at a frequency of like, this is what we have, this is where we're going.

and yeah. It's, quite a dynamic experience.

Jesse: It is, and it's kinda what you talked about at the start in your gratitude, you know, it's like how do we consciously root ourselves in a place of being proud of who we are and how far we've come? I love the reverse bucket list, a regular bucket list is, a list of, you know, big awesome goals that we wanna achieve at some point in our lives.

The reverse bucket list is to create a list of the things that we're proud of ourselves for doing the things that we've accomplished that we kind of look back and celebrate. It's such a, powerful tool to intentionally create a sense of. Being able to see our progress, the progress that we've made in our lives, and when we're able to root in that, what we can create.

Like I think I've always seen that our likelihood to achieve big goals we're so much more likely to achieve big goals if we first rooted in celebrating how far we've come and seeing, the progress that we've made. So I agree with that. And I think the other piece to it is, you know, when you're talking about want, it's like, I think it's beautiful to want, I think it's beautiful to desire.

For me the opportunity is to really look at why do I want this?to really kind of push myself to get clear about what's the intention behind this want and is there, something revealed in that desire that, you know, there might be some room to work on. And in doing so, I often find that that thing that we want, if we can get really aligned on a healthy reason for why we want it, we can get really aligned on that, then we're a lot more likely to call it in and create it in the world.

Tonya: I am curious how in your life and at the pace of which everything has kind of moved, how you've set aside space to feel your emotions, to do this level of self-work and to process. how do you balance that? Because everyone's life moves at a pretty incredible pace

Jesse: working in the wellness space for the past, decade or so.

I feel like I'm sensing this shift and I don't know if you see this at all. I'm noticing that there's almost like a wellness 1.0. It's like the last like maybe 10, 15 years wellness 1.0 I saw was, a lot of yoga, it was meditation, it was mindset work. You know, it, it was practices that build awareness that, you know, help us get clear about stress and managing stress.

And we started to talk about the nervous system and this sort of 1.0 of wellness. And building that mindfulness or building that level of awareness has been so important for so many people to become aware of, you know, what's not working in their lives where we need to take better care of ourselves.

You know, start to introduce the practices to help us have the resources and capacities to, you know, kind of meet the demands of the world that we're in. But over the past few years, I've noticed this shift into wellness 2.0, which is something deeper. You know, it's not just about having awareness and, you know, having affirmations and mindsets and meditation practice.

It's. About going deeper into the root of where this stuff comes from how it lives in the body, and how to really break the patterns. And what I've seen is this focus on somatic health, this deepening into inner childhood work and looking at our childhoods and looking at our family dynamics and understanding, you know, from a somatic felt standpoint, what's living in the body and how can we work with it and be with it and feel it and release it.

And that work is scarier, you know, that work is harder and that work is, I think, a lot more challenging. I think that, and I see this with the clients that I work with, the wellness 1.0 tools are necessary a lot of times to allow us to start to open to this stuff. I see. with, the founders and the public figures that, I work with in my leadership coaching.

I'll introduce meditation and I'll support them in, a, in a powerful meditation practice that. They'll get going and practice for several months. And then once the stress is brought down and once there's a bit more awareness around their work and their lives, then there's a little bit more room to start to talk about emotions and to start to talk about how to feel those emotions and be with those emotions and release them in healthy ways.

So I actually think that sort of the wellness 1.0 to 2.0 tracks really well for our culture. And I know for a lot of people, wellness, 1.0 hasn't come into their world yet.and hopefully it does at some point. So I do think that there are steps to take to go into this stuff.

I do think that, you know, having had a meditation practice for a good chunk of time and having carved out space regularly to let myself feel and sort of build up, that in and out or awareness has put me in a place where now as I'm starting to focus more on my somatic health, I'm able to notice when I get angry, oh, it's that feeling in my chest that is starting to bubble up.

I know this feeling, and now know that if I let myself release that anger in a healthy way that it lifts and there's usually something else behind it that can emerge. And if I can feel that I feel really fucking good in the past for many years, if I felt anger, I would say I'm the meditation guy.

Like, I'm not supposed to be angry. I gotta push that shit down. And I did that for many years. You know, I thought anger was this bad thing. I did a lot of sort of pushing emotions down, you know, now one of my favorite anger release practices is to grab a towel in the bathroom, like a shower towel, bath towel, and to just grab it and wr it out and just put all my anger and kind of energy into wring that towel out.

It's silent. Nobody knows that I do it. I don't break anything. I'm not destroying any I hands or holes in walls and. It takes about five seconds. And if I go and, when I feel anger, allow myself to go in the bathroom and have, that type of a release that I can come out and sometimes it'll lead to something else, some sadness.

Maybe I'll need to have a little cry afterwards, or maybe that's it. The anger's out and it's gone. And then I feel powerful again. I feel like I'm back to me, and it took me about 40 years of living to realize how potent that was and to start to access it. But it's so interesting because, you know, I work with these very high powered individuals and for a lot of them, male or female, but especially the men, you know, they've been told that anger is bad and wrong, and grief or sadness or crying is weak and soft.

And it's really powerful to have the moment when these, you know, very influential, high powered individuals who are in the, you know, these business positions start to realize that. By allowing themselves to cry, they actually can access more of their power. that by allowing themselves to be angry and release it in a healthy way, it gives them, more of an edge in their business, you know, and in their personal lives.

It's really cool to kind of see that new kind of paradigm realignment happening.

Tonya: That's beautiful. It's perfect. Perfect segue 'cause I wanted to talk about kind of the role of. Crying and anger and sadness. And I know that those are pieces that you speak to and I was curious how that has evolved.

Something I like to do personally too is fists of anger.

Jesse: What's that?

Tonya: Essentially this like breath practice where you kind of make this fist and you're like creating these withomo breath of fire and you're like punching the air above you, but you're kind of just like working through the energetic field and it's one of the kind of crea that where you actually really wanna stimulate the negative mind and like just get everything out.

So if I am, Triggered or upset or just something's happened, I find that to be a really powerful way to release. Yeah. So I mean, you kind of answered one of my questions, which was, do you think there's a really strong and feel, there's a really strong connection between our ability to feel deeply and our ability to be excellent leaders?

Jesse: A hundred percent. And it takes a lot of unlearning. and that might look like, like I mentioned, someone who's a founder of a business who feels like they need to always have it together and they need to be tough. And it's about grit and it's about working hard and always having it figured out.

And that's how you create success. And you don't let emotions in, or my experience being someone in the wellness space who talked a lot about emotions and wellness, but felt like I couldn't be sad or couldn't be angry because I needed to kind of keep up this image of like the calm meditation guy, you know?

So a lot of this is unlearning what we might think of, whatever stories or messages we have tied to being emotional or the experience of emotion. It's unlearning that and it's realizing that emotions. when we experience something that triggers an emotion, and usually that's comes from some form of challenging experience, that will lead to trauma.

If that's, you know, big T trauma or little t trauma. if we're not able to really fully feel the emotional response to whatever that trigger was, it gets stored inside our bodies and it lives in the cells within our bodies. And because our cells are regularly replicating, the stored emotion in the cell replicates into the new cell.

And a lot of the patterns and challenges that we experience from traumatic experience in our lives replicate. And that's why we see that patterns and limiting beliefs and things that have been challenging for us that keep happening, continue to happen. Once we learn to experience and feel the emotion, it gets released, it leaves the cell.

And when we grow and ourselves replicate and we move forward in our lives, we start to notice thatthose patterns that were there forever. Aren't there with, the same strength. So part of it, I think, is also helping people understand, feeling our emotions isn't something that's important just because it feels good or because you know, has a therapeutic quality.

when we understand that, when we feel an emotion, it's actually being released from the cells in our bodies and it allows us to heal challenges from our past, I think it helps people, especially, some of these, left brain individuals that I work with. It helps them understand that it's a really valuable tool to grow in the ways that they want to grow in their personal lives and in their businesses.

I do find that if I can help individuals understand how something that's good for them. Will enhance their business. That's like the Trojan horse in to get them to pay attention, and then they realize how much it unlocks in their personal lives and their own sort of wellbeing. Sometimes you gotta kind of have to take like the business approach to get people, to pay attention and care.

But once there's that understanding, then I notice that people are more likely to open to that healing journey. And then it's about how to help people access those emotions, because we can logically understand this stuff, but it can still be really hard to be with that anger and release that anger, or to go to a place where we can cry and experience grief and sorrow.

You know, it's one thing to talk about. It's another thing to feel it.

Tonya: Yeah. I, have this like visualization of a tapestry in my head because I always used to say that. when I transitioned in from healing work into business that I was like, oh, life was easier when I could just, exist as this spiritual entity that didn't have these, like, you know, I had this story essentially, and I eventually just realized that like.

It's all one and the same. And all of this personal work that I do and that I'm so committed to is feeding my business because it's like I can't feel frustration at this thing within my business and then come home and be a different person. it's gonna trickle out, into every facet and make itself so known.

and it's all a spiritual experience, no matter what you're working through. It is the exact same thing. And you will face that in every person, in every relationship, in every projection. And so. It was an interesting kind of narrative flip where I'm just like, this is just my greatest lesson over and over again.

And the way that I can relate to this and work with this is going to be how I believe success will come and continues to come and whatever that looks like. But, you know, it really reminds me of that and how truthful that has been in my experience.

Jesse: I love that you're speaking about this. I think it's such an important thing to acknowledge and understand for those of us that are founders or, you know, for people that are not, it's so interwoven.

And to be able to understand that and to see how it all impacts everything is really critical. And I find that perspective really helps. It creates more, it makes the stuff we're talking about feel more accessible to people that otherwise would be like, no, that's not for me. I.

And we can understand how it is so interwoven between all facets of our lives. And that's something I've always been really interested in is how do we get people who are convinced that meditation's not for them? Or how do you get people who are like, no emotions. don't do that. To understand that these things are actually really valuable on your own terms, but these things will be really valuable for your personal life, for your business, for whatever.

And that was a big part of the big quiet, you know, is like, how do we do this in a way that is social and fun and feels different? And as a result, we were able to introduce meditation to lots of people because there was this thinking around how do we create access points that meet people at the level that where they're at.

And I just think that's something that's always been a focal point of mine. It's something that I'm really interested and I'm interested as more of my work becomes about kind of somatic healing and focusing on emotional level. How do we talk about these things and bring people in a way.

That meets them where they're at and feels inclusive, and feels accessible because the more people that are doing this stuff in a way that feels good, the better the world is. the more we're able to create solutions to the world's biggest problems. I really genuinely believe that.

Tonya: Yeah. I think, you know, one of the things I really, I commend you for, I think is one of your superpowers is also just your courageousness in sharing this.and I think that's so important for this moment of time that we're in, and this moment of time could be like a thousand year chapter for humanity, but I feel that there's, you know, this, um.

For so many years, we have put various figures on pedestals in terms of the knowledge that they have or the guru and really like seeing that person as being this ultimate non-human entity that's not going through the challenges of life, which makes it a little bit difficult to relate to that person in certain ways, but I just think that your vulnerability is your superpower.

It's also about existing on these stages and being in these positions while also being like, Hey, and I'm a human and these are the things I go through and here's how I go through that. That for me is what resonates so deeply and, it meets so many people when people can see that somebody is like openly being vulnerable about what their experience has been.

Jesse: Thank you for reflecting that. I'm always still to this day just blown away by how authentic vulnerability. It just creates a sense of connection, belonging with humans, with humans that know each other, with humans that don't know each other. And, you know, as a speaker, I still have to push myself to go to that vulnerable place because it still feels uncomfortable, like many years into doing this work.

But I'm reminded that, it is bringing, authentically bringing our truth to the front of who we are, to the world creates these moments for connection that everybody's yearning for. it really creates that sense of shared humanity. I talk about how with vulnerability There's two different ways to do it.

There's like vulnerability when we're still in that place of pain, which I would say is sharing from the wound versus vulnerability from that place of, I've went through this. It's vulnerable to talk about, but I've learned from it. I'm on the other side of it, which is sharing from the scar.

And I think that sometimes we can feel when someone shares from the wound publicly, it might feel a little uncomfortable. Like we're actually concerned about the person. I think sharing from the wound when it's really raw is great for like, you know, one-on-ones with friends, therapists, but I think that, you know, when we're speaking publicly or on social media or if we can share from the scar and point to the learning.

The gift in it, it actually empowers people and it creates that connection.

Tonya: Yeah. I love that distinction. Thank you for that. I know that technology also plays a role well in everyone's life, but you have some interesting boundaries that I think our audience would be interested to hear about.

So can you share anything that you're doing for yourself, recommendations that you have on how to create some boundaries with technology and just our ability to stay present with what life is presenting us or putting our phones down and having a conversation. How do you approach that?

Jesse: As a starting point, I think part of what's so interesting about our devices and just being like a modern human today is we're really not taught how to use our phones and our technology, but especially our smartphones, we've just watched them get smarter over the years and we've just had 'em in our pockets

We've kinda had to figure out how to use 'em as time has gone and now it's getting even more intense with AI and generative ai and just watching how quickly that's changing. So I'm a big proponent of, because we're not really taught how to have healthy relationships with our devices, it's really important for us to get clear about what the tools and boundaries are that we feel we need to implement into our lives with our devices, so we can make sure that we're in control of our phones instead of having our phones control us.

So I think is different for everybody. The things that help me personally, I've gotten really into app blockers. I find them to be super valuable. It's like, as much as I'd like to be, like, I'm not gonna check Instagram, or I'm only gonna check Instagram 30 minutes a day, just because of how brilliantly these technologies are designed, it's a lot easier said than done.

Just not check, or to have that little like kind of reminder thing that pops up on an iPhone. that you could just very easily click through and then you're back into the app. So I really like this app called Opal. Do you know that one?

Tonya: That's what I use too.

Jesse: Oh, you use Opal too? Yeah.

Tonya: I love, I love Opal. I think it's saved me like five years already of my life.

Jesse: Seriously. So valuable. you can use Opal in different ways. You know, the way that I've set up my Opal is I just use it for Instagram, 'cause that's like my most problematic app. But I've set it up so that I can only check my Instagram from 5:00 PM to 8:00 PM each day.

So I have a three hour window where I can go on there if I need to get into Instagram at other parts of the day, you know, it blocks me out if I really need to get in there. I don't have, you have your set like this, but for me, I can get in still, but I have to sit and have to watch. I think that's maybe a 45 second countdown.

And I can't go to other apps. I have to just sit there and look at it so I can take 45 seconds and go in there when I need to. But it's totally, Broken down the muscle memory to check every second. So I just stop checking now. I just don't check and I'm just really intentional about when I go in and use it.

It's really been helpful in that way. I make sure that I don't charge my phone in my bedroom. Melissa, my girlfriend and I, we both make sure that our phones are charging in the bathroom and we've had it like that for a while and it just allows for the bedroom to be a place for bedroom stuff, you know, for rest, for connection, for making love, and to keep the devices, the notifications, the work, the news, everything that comes into it's outta the bedroom.

And the other one that's really big, which is I think really doable for anybody, although it might feel a little daunting at first, which is, you know, first thing in the morning when we wake up, our brains are in an incredibly ripe state. And all the neurotransmitters that we've used the day before have just been rebalanced.

And if we're able to keep our brains in this rested ripe state for 30 minutes to an hour or so, first thing in the morning, if we're able to do that, we significantly increase our brain's ability to perform, to problem solve, to access creativity, you know, to have a stabilized mood for the entire day, right?

Just 30 minutes of keeping the brain in that space increases our likelihood of brain performance throughout the whole day. But what most people do first thing in the morning, check the phone within seconds, we go from that, Right. Brain until, you know, left fight or flight notification party in bed, right?

Everything just comes into that space. Brain changes. So, you know, this is another one that's been really helpful for me is at least 30 minutes. First 30 minutes in the morning, I don't check my phone. I use a little alarm clock that I got on Amazon. They've got tons of them that I use is my alarm box, and I have to use my phone.

And the last one that I'll share, and this is, I would say, More of an advanced practice is to do a Tech Sabbath. it's to pick a night where, from sundown that night to sundown the next day. No phone. I find it's most doable on a Saturday night until a Sunday night and I'm just off my phone for a 24 hour period.

It requires, you know, maybe giving some people a heads up. If you have an iPhone, you can put an away message notification on by putting the phone into driving mode focus and just changing the autoresponder. It's really helpful. But I find that a 24 hour break from my phone resets me from so much of the overwhelm intensity that I feel, and I come back to my phone that next day or that night, whatever, just so much more capable of handling all the information that comes at me.

So I try to do that, you know, once or twice a month.

Tonya: I love that so much. That is re inspiring me in, really important ways right now. So that really hits. Thank you.

Jesse: Oh, you know what? I wanna share one other thing that I've been really into lately that might also be helpful. We look at our phones so much, you know, I think for most people it's over a hundred times a day.

We check the phone. I have this thing on my phone where, I've deleted all the apps that I don't use, right? Our phones can become these, like graveyards for all of our apps. So, I deleted all the apps I don't use, and you can do this thing where you can hide apps.

You can, if you hold it down and like, you want to delete an app, there's a choice to just remove it from the home screen. So the only way to find the app is to search for it. the way that I've set up the home screen on my phone is that I've got three apps in the very bottom bar.

A little folder with maybe 10 apps in it, and then the entire screen of my phone is just empty. There's no, oh, I love that. There are no apps there, and it just makes the phone calm, kind of boring. And honestly, when I look at it, it's just a way more relaxing experience than what it used to be.

Right.

Tonya: Oh, I love, that's such a good idea too, actually. I've never heard of anybody doing that. I love that. I'm actually gonna re reorganize my phone after this.

Jesse: Yeah, yeah. That's great.

Tonya: Okay, I have a a few more questions for you. You're obviously on the Rainbo Podcast, so I gotta know what your relationship with fungi and mushrooms is like, and so, you know, please enlighten us on that front.

Anything you wanna share? have they helped shape you? Yeah,

Jesse: it's funny. it's so perfect because, I was on an SSRI for many years, Lexapro antidepressant, anti-anxiety antidepressant medication. I

Tonya: didn't know that.

Jesse: And. it was something that I went on actually around the time I got into meditation, I had gone into therapy.

I went on Lexapro and started meditating. And the more I was meditating regularly, the more I realized I could go off of the Lexapro, and this was like in my early twenties, but into my thirties. I felt very capable of, not being on Lexapro. But anytime I tried to go off of it, it was so challenging for me.

The withdrawals were so challenging. So I just kind of stayed on. And it wasn't until about two years ago, it was actually, yeah, it was like March two years ago where I was able to finally slowly taper off, wean off. I worked with a Chinese medicine doctor who actually helped me do it over the course of a year.

So it's been about two years that I've been fully off and it's been outta my system. and by the way, I'm someone that thinks that these medications can be really helpful for people that, Are in need of them. And I think it's also just a great thing to be mindful of, the process of how to go off.

'cause it can be challenging to go off. So the past couple years of being off, it's been awesome. It's given me a lot more access to my emotions. I think that's part of like how the somatic journey has really opened up for me. It's been cool and challenging in some ways. And also there are still gaps that I feel from where I was maybe reliant on Lexapro for many years and don't have that experience now.

I've noticed that giving keynote presentations and being on big stages off of Lexapro compared to when I was on it is a different experience in my body and nervous system.

Tonya: I know that's a whole other thing I wanted to talk to you about too, but like, we'll save that.

Jesse: And that's been, a beautiful, rich journey.

But I have been interested as my brain is still adjusting, it's probably on it for 14, 15 years, big adjustment. And I don't even think like the science is out on what that even does to your brain long term or what that adjustment looks like. So I've been, interested in, you know, what I might explore to, you know, kind of support my brain in its sort of rebalancing process.

So this week, actually, this week, Monday, I started a microdosing protocol with, like a microdosing coach. Amazing. For the first time after, honestly two years of, not touching any psychedelics just 'cause how sensitive my system's been. And it's really funny that you asked this question because I took it Monday, Wednesday, and today and

it's made me feel really kind of uncomfortable in my skin. maybe I'm a little bit too much of a dose or something like that. But it's funny because I took it right before the podcast and this whole podcast, I'm really like really feeling it in my system. It's really interesting and like a new experience for me.

Tonya: Cool. I love that.

Jesse: Yeah. but I'm learning a lot from it and it's been really interesting. I'm really excited to keep on that journey.

Tonya: Oh, I love that. That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. we also sent you some lines, mane and Rishi, and I'm very curious to know how those will also support your nervous system and brain.

'cause those are my two everyday non-negotiables for anxiety. Yeah. I would've selected that for you if I was so happy to see that was

Jesse: your election. Thank you. Thank you for that gift.

Tonya: Of course. And

Jesse (2): I am. Curious if there's like a half-baked idea that has been occupying your mental space, an idea that you've been thinking about a lot, something that has captured your attention, something that you're like excited to chew on. And there's obviously no right or wrong answer here, but just wondering if there's anything you've been sitting with internally that you'd be willing to share with us.

Jesse: Yeah, I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is actually in regards to my relationship with my partner, my girlfriend, Melissa. we've talked a little bit about somatic health so far today and something that we've both been doing as we're growing in a relationship, we've been doing somatic work together, so we see, a somatic therapist individually and as a couple.

And it's really cool because unlike couples therapy I've experienced in the past where it's just about talking through what's happening. In the practice of somatic therapy as a couple, we're talking through stuff, but we're also moving through energy through stuff. So that might actually mean looking at each other and in, you know, a container with a therapist yelling, you know, or looking at each other and, smacking, not each other, but smacking a giant foam brick with a mallet and, releasing what's been really challenging and being able to do that in front of each other.

And it's been really eye-opening, like this experience of not just talking through stuff, but supporting each other to release the emotions of things as a way to move through challenge. You know, Melissa now knows that if we are having an argument or I get triggered or something comes up that's creating anger whereas in the past, I might do something that would feel kind of scary, like I broke my iPhone once when I was really angry.

Which was scary. And also, I didn't have a phone for two days, so that just sucked. Now I'll say I need to go into the bathroom, and she knows that if I go into the bathroom when I'm having an argument, like that's something she's full supportive. That means I'm going to the bathroom, I'm gonna grab my towel, I'm gonna ring that shit out and I'm gonna come out so clear.

You know, it was interesting, we had this experience the other night where an argument came up and I felt that feeling in my body. We were actually in bed and I could feel it like my chest got so tight, I was about to just like roll to the other side of the bed and not talk and go to sleep and have one of those sleeps.

We're just not talking to each other and just like feel like my chest pounding. But instead I went into the bathroom, I rung out my towel and to my surprise, I actually then had a cry come up. I actually don't even know what it was about. sometimes this stuff isn't tied, you know, logically or intellectually to something in the moment.

Who knows, probably came from something from my childhood, but rung out the towel, cried for like three or four seconds, left the bathroom and my heart was fully open, was able to get in bed and hold her, and we fall asleep holding each other. That's such a huge difference from where I was before when I'd get in an argument and I'd roll over and fall asleep by myself and when we're angry still the next day.

So learning how to understand somatics in our partnership and support each other in that journey. By no means perfect with this, but it's just something that has been feeling really good. and in doing so, just really in this moment of being reminded that, you know, for any listeners that are in, romantic relationships or have partners or dating people right now, just how the people that we choose to be in partnership with become our teachers, our greatest teachers.

Through the triggers and challenges that come up in being in that partnership. And if we choose to lean into the discomfort that is created through being in partnership with our significant others, if we choose to, you know, really look at that and do that work, the opportunity for personal growth, which expands us who we are on a personal level and in our businesses and all the things that we do.

And of course in our romantic relationships, it's just so profound. But just being reminded of the value in that partnership.

Tonya: Yeah, I love that so much that hits too. It's so funny you say that because just last night, so Simon and I recently started, well. It's been about a year we're working together and that is bringing in Oh

Jesse: really?

Yeah. Like he's on

rainbo.

Tonya: Yeah. And so

Jesse: No way.

Tonya: Yep. and we're like, cool. It is cool. And we're also working on polarity dynamics that are so essential to maintain. Right. And it's so interesting because just last night we were driving home and I was frustrated it was just one of those moments where like, I don't even know where, like, I guess it was just pent up, right.

But he was like, why are you directing this to me? And it turned into this argument and I was like, oh, this is so interesting because, first of all, sorry, did not mean to direct that at you. 'cause I'm not actually angry at you, but I think I need a good system for how to release this and for,

To be in partnership where you can kind of, Remove yourself and say, okay, this is this emotion bubbling up for them. it's really not about me, and I wanna create a safe container so that they can feel this.

Because if two people come at it and it's just the defensive place of like, argument, then well, you're just creating that dynamic within it. But it's like the emotion still doesn't really go anywhere. And so I love that idea of like bringing the somatic in and being like, okay, cool.

You need to go do your thing. I'm gonna honor that. I'm gonna let you do that. And then you come back together and that's just, so powerful.

Jesse: Right. And I think how that works is to have conversations when we're, not an argument around what both people need in those moments where the emotions arise or where the anger arises.

and to be able to communicate that. And for,both people to know what they need in those moments so they can support each other. In those ways because the truth is, you know, to go have a release of anger and an argument that's scary to a lot of people. But to understand that it's actually healthy when it's done in a safe way, to have an agreement that it's okay, you know, that's a really powerful shift.

So, so much of this is about un learning it for ourselves and communicating with their partners about how to do it

Tonya: Well, I am. So grateful for you sharing your wisdom today and your whole journey and experience, and it has given me so much energy. I also feel like I took a microdose this morning, but I didn't.

But it's probably just like me, getting a little bit of your energy.

Jesse: I've gotta tell you, I'm so glad that this podcast was with you because you have such an incredibly calming, grounding, stabilizing energy. I've never done a podcast where I've really felt like mushrooms in my system, not expecting.

I took half of the dose today too.

Tonya: Wow. I'm grateful it was this one.

Jesse: Yeah, me too. And it just feels so right that it was you and it was this podcast. So thank you for holding that and for such thoughtful questions and. for doing this.

Tonya: Yeah. It's truly my honor. And my last question for you that I ask all guests is if you can leave us with one prayer or a meditation, a wish, one message for our listeners today, what would that be?

Jesse: it would be the thing that I've been reminding myself of most lately. While there's a lot of uncertainty that's been happening in my life, which I know has been true for a lot of people, and it's to trust in what's unfolding. I've been reminding myself of this often because I know that my tendency is to grip and try to control and need to know, and that can lead to worry and suffering.

And when I'm able to really kind of surrender into trusting that whatever's unfolding. is meant to happen, it's going to unfold into where I need to go. what's meant for me able to have that release and kind of move with nature's energy.

So I would say that my hope for listeners is for them to be able to really trust in what's unfolding in their lives.

Tonya: Thank you. So good. Thank you so much, Jesse. And yeah, I hope the first of many deep convos together, so thank you.

Jesse: Thank you so much for having me on and for doing this work.

So grateful

 

Keywords:

the big quiet, somatic healing practices, emotional mastery and leadership, tech boundaries and mindfulness, ending business chapters gracefully, wellness 2.0, vulnerability and authenticity, meditation and emotional release, trusting life’s unfolding

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